Republican leaders voting Hillary?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh good grief. I can't take you seriously with statements like that.

Okay, it might be an exaggeration, but you know what I mean.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Okay, we're making headway. We've come to an agreement in some things, and are agreeing to disagree in others; but come on, the national debt is a known, proven variable. It's not "debatable" whether the debt has risen to $19 trillion, we know for a fact that it has. And it's liable to hit $20 trillion before Obama leaves office.

http://www.usdebtclock.org



I don't have any investments, or savings.

How much of that is related to the war?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

I don't have any investments, or savings.

Hmmm... I'm just a middle class union guy. Most of my family have a rich history of serving in unions and working hard to build America. My great-grandfather and his brothers worked their way out of deep poverty under the New Deal. My grand-father settled down in Ohio and found work with GM and joined the union. My dad got drafted into Vietnam... and that broke the chain. My uncle eventually volunteered and by him going in, the Army pulled my dad out. My other uncle went to work for GM. After the war, my dad and my uncle who were in the military were alcoholics and suffered PTSD. Never became professionals at anything. When I graduated from high school, I joined the Army. After getting out I found a job through civil service and so began my union experience. I've tried to pick up the torch where it was dropped and I encourage my boy to get an education and if he must work as an employee, work union. There's a sense of union pride, accomplishment, and duty that runs deep in my family. More and more I see people working and working... just to survive. There's little chance or money to actually.... build a dream. It's almost like the American dream has vanished and been replaced with the lifestyle of a free market wage slave. More and more those glory days seem like they are just becoming dusty history. The solidarity, pride, and do or die spirit seems to have faded into a spirit of rugged individuality that looks out only for me, myself, and I. To me... it's disheartening. I experience tells me that rather one is working for a union or doing military service.... Americans work best, and work wonders, when we work together. I felt that energy when I was supporting Bernie Sanders in the Primaries. I don't feel it so much with Hillary. Never felt it with Trump.

I have some savings. My investments are long term and designed to supplement my retirement.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

How much of that is related to the war?

Oh, I thought Obama promised to get us out of the war. Hmm, seems he breaks a lot of promises. He's just about spent more in his one term, than every president before him, *including* Bush. You haven't answered why you think our debt at $19 trillion+ is "debatable".

Also, I want to go back and address one other comment you made.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't blame President Clinton or President Bush for the attack. The enemy exploited weaknesses in our system and hit us hard. We'd have been hit even if Al Gore was President.

My point wasn't in regards to blame, and I agree that we would have been hit regardless (though I believe it would have been a larger disaster under Gore). My point was, that it destabilized our already faltering economy. That's not something you can blame on Bush.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Oh, I thought Obama promised to get us out of the war. Hmm, seems he breaks a lot of promises.

Obama never promised to get us out of the war. He did promise a phased withdraw of troops from Iraq. Which, blew up in his face, just as Bush Administrations warned President Bush with regards to troop withdraws. Frankly, it's questionable if we ever belonged in Iraq in the first place.

He's just about spent more in his one term, than every president before him, *including* Bush. You haven't answered why you think our debt at $19 trillion+ is "debatable".

I say it is debatable because various groups play with the numbers.

What I do know is this...

Since President Barack Obama first took office:

◾Homicides have dropped 13 percent, but gun sales have surged.
◾The economy has added more than 9 million jobs, and the jobless rate has dropped to below the historical median.
◾The number of long-term unemployed Americans has dropped by 614,000 under Obama, but it is still 761,000 higher than at the start of the Great Recession.
◾Corporate profits are up 166 percent; real weekly wages are up 3.4 percent.
◾There are 15 million fewer people who lack health insurance.
◾Wind and solar power have nearly tripled, and now account for more than 5 percent of U.S. electricity.
◾The federal debt has more than doubled — rising 116 percent — and big annual deficits have continued.

Yes, he's a big spender.

Also, I want to go back and address one other comment you made.

My point wasn't in regards to blame, and I agree that we would have been hit regardless (though I believe it would have been a larger disaster under Gore). My point was, that it destabilized our already faltering economy. That's not something you can blame on Bush.

I know that President Bush wasn't to blame for all the economic woes that came after 9/11. However, I have issues with how he handled the coming housing crisis when warned about it. Time magazine did an excellent piece on the role the Bush Administration played in the matter.

[Jito463]

You know, I have to ask. How in the world did humanity EVER survive, before there was health insurance? If it's such a necessity, how did humanity last for thousands of years without it?

You are too stuck on this whole insurance garbage. What we need, is to get the government out of our health care entirely.

As Reagan so infamously and eloquently put it, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".

[n david]

Add George HW Bush to the list of GOPe voting for Hillary. At least that is what RFK's daughter is claiming he told her.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...hillary-228395

[Esaias]

Voting for a CGI candidate.

lulz

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

Add George HW Bush to the list of GOPe voting for Hillary. At least that is what RFK's daughter is claiming he told her.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...hillary-228395

Those two families have always been chummy.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Those two families have always been chummy.

They weren't in 1992. But things began to thaw when W was elected and HW went on the Clinton Foundation tour with Bill.