The Question No One Can Answer

[ILG]

Woosh!

(Sorry, Aquila. Just picking....)

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Right over your head: whoosh! (Look again at what she quoted. )

LOL ..... Timmy, I was wondering whether I was the only one noting that.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Lafon

LOL ..... Timmy, I was wondering whether I was the only one noting that.

I was wondering if I was the only one noting that!! LOL!

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Aquila

On top of that, many would have us believe that these visions, dreams, and experiences (which are uniformly described) are the same for everyone. Although, one would think that if such were merely brain activity, they would be vastly different from one another given religious traditions, the lack thereof, and memories of personal experiences. Yet the majority describe being out of body and can describe even visual realities such as what individuals are wearing, the time on the wall, what others might be doing miles away, etc. They also describe being lifted up and a tunnel that appears to lead to an indescribable light. They describe the presence of spiritual beings (angels or spirit guides?) along with friends and family who have passed on. A form of "life review" routinely takes place. Then they encounter "the light" of indescribable love and beauty. They might try to identify the light within the framework of their religious traditions, but it is still "the light". They are routinely told that it "isn't their time" or that they "must return" to accomplish some purpose in their lives. Then they suddenly find themselves back in body or being drawn back towards their bodies at an indescribable rate of speed, and suddenly awaken. Most testify that the religious traditions previously embraced are incomplete and the reality of "Heaven" is beyond religion's scope. Most testify that the primary calling of God is to love unconditionally. And the list of similarities across the board can go on and on.

Then, if we get into "negative" NDEs we discover people describing being banished from "the light" or "falling from the light" or simply "falling". A very disturbing "life review" takes place. Darkness, fire, and monstrous entities are often encountered. Terror and torment are present. The sense of being in the grips of indescribable evil overwhelms them to the point of some actually having suicidal feelings after awakening. And then... many report that they are then "saved by the light", told it "isn't their time" and to "remember" this horror, and then they are brought back into their bodies.

Almost universally this ends with a deep and personal spiritual quest or calling to discover and share personal spiritual fulfillment.

That doesn't sound like "bran activity" to me. Even atheists have had these experiences (many, if not most, don't remain atheists). And they don't report seeing Ronald McDonald, Donald Duck, Iron Man or some fictional being of their imagination, memories, or previous experiences. They still encounter "the light". If it were brain activity the dreams and visions would be strictly limited to one's own personal beliefs, traditions, experiences, and memories. These experiences wouldn't be so similar to everyone else's, though they might be viewed or interpreted through the stained glass widows of one's traditions or beliefs.

The light always identifies itself as God, even if a person projects their understanding of God upon the light. However, there is one exception. Atheists don't report the light describing itself as their "higher self" or "subconscious". It still identifies itself rather generally as God, often leaving them in bewilderment, panic, or protest. Wouldn't their "dream" reflect their actual beliefs?

There is definitely "something" indescribable that people are encountering. Even people who don't believe in it. That, to me, testifies to these experiences being very real.

Chris, certain characteristics of NDE's may be similar, but other Religions don't see Jesus or the "G-d" of Christianity. This is paramount proof that Culture, Religion, and Parental Upbringing reflect the memory to the point, that visions and sub-conscience dreams reflect this implant of information.

http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=66

"In one study carried out in 1985, the experiences of 16 Asian Indians had been compared with those of Americans and it had been found that the Indians had often encountered Yamraj, the Hindu king of the dead, while the Americans had not.

The largest cross-cultural study had been carried out in 1977 by Osis and Haraldsson and had focused more on deathbed visions. These are the experiences that people have before death, usually in the 24 hours prior to death, and they are different from the classic NDE phenomenon. Deathbed visions are usually reported by carers who have looked after a person during the dying process. In this study the researchers had examined the visions of approximately 440 terminally ill American and Indian patients as described to their doctors and nurses. The most common feature, which occurred in 91 per cent of cases, was seeing deceased relatives. In 140 cases there were reports of seeing religious figures, usually described as an angel or God. Where these were specifically identified, they were always described according to the person’s religious beliefs: no Hindu reported seeing Jesus, and no Christian a Hindu deity."

http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html

"A comparison of Hindu near-death experiences with western accounts reveals the following:
(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher, Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

(2) Only one account contained an out-of-body experience, which is another aspect that is frequently found in western accounts. Osis and Haraldsson did find several accounts of out-of-body experience in the Indian near-death experiences they researched.

(3) Consistent with western accounts, some Hindu near-death accounts included a life review. However, whereas in western accounts the life review often consists of seeing a panoramic view of a person's entire life, Hindu accounts consists of having someone read the record of the dying person's life called the "akashic record." In Christian circles, this is equivalent to reading from the "Book of Life" as known from the Christian doctrine of the resurrection. In Hindu circles, it is a traditional belief that the reading of a person's akashic record occurs immediately after death. This concept is widely believed by Hindus all over India. However, the panoramic life review, which is commonly mentioned in western accounts, does not appear in accounts from India.

(4) As in western accounts, Hindu near-death accounts sometimes describe the meeting of religious deities and deceased loved ones."

http://infidels.org/library/modern/g...questions.html

"Not surprisingly, when religious figures are reported, Hindus tend to see Hindu religious figures, while Christians tend to see Christian religious figures. Moreover, many of the NDErs who report such encounters never question the apparent identity of such transcendental religious figures. But if the NDE reveals an objective transcendental world where deceased souls share eternal life, why does it feature the parochial gods of particular religions? I call these gods parochial because they are limited to this planet, and because belief in them only has a history of about 5,000 years—which is a fairly miniscule period of time compared to eternity. Shall we posit an afterlife divided into separate compartments for Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and so on? Compared to the eternity for which people are dead, people are alive for an extremely short period of time. So why do NDErs only report seeing the geographically and temporally local pantheons of gods of the religions that they know, instead of being awed by the true grandeur of a glorious eternal afterlife? This question has hitherto never raised by NDE investigators."

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Lafon

NFS, Have you never read, or do you not believe, the Lord Jesus' words of Revelation 1:18?

"I am HE THAT LIVETH, AND WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE EVERMORE, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

What better witness can one find to prove there is an "afterlife" than the words of none other than The Lord Jesus Christ Himself; the One who "was dead" and that now "liveth"?

Do you deny that Christ Jesus arose from the dead and now liveth evermore? If so, you're denying the "only" One that is able to save you!

Just saying ....

There is so much I could say here, but I'll say this much; even if I did believe everything you say here, that still doesn't prove there IS an Afterlife.

It only proves that I believe in something that cannot be proven.

Personally, I don't believe the Book of Revelation should have been added to the Canon in 397 A.D. (Old Testament--New Testament--Back to the Old Testament, with fire, judgment, and no mercy on the weak, with a Book that cannot be interpreted.)

Just read the Gospels; the Jesus that walked in this life is not the same Jesus in the Book of Revelation, where mass killing and bloodshed fill the Earth with unprecedented suffering. If we believe the Gospels, when Jesus said, "It is finished", it is finished.

[ILG]

I believe in the afterlife, I believe people have near death experiences, but that doesn't mean I KNOW there are those things. I hope so, though. Except I hope there isn't a hell. I hope there is compassion for everyone. Maybe people will be given some sort of a chance over there. I would like to think so. It's hard for me to believe God is loving and all compassionate when there is a hell that he would throw those he considers his children into over, especially over some technicality like the preacher saying the wrong words over someone when they were baptized.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

There is so much I could say here, but I'll say this much; even if I did believe everything you say here, that still doesn't prove there IS an Afterlife.

It only proves that I believe in something that cannot be proven.

Personally, I don't believe the Book of Revelation should have been added to the Canon in 397 A.D. (Old Testament--New Testament--Back to the Old Testament, with fire, judgment, and no mercy on the weak, with a Book that cannot be interpreted.)

Just read the Gospels; the Jesus that walked in this life is not the same Jesus in the Book of Revelation, where mass killing and bloodshed fill the Earth with unprecedented suffering. If we believe the Gospels, when Jesus said, "It is finished", it is finished.

A lot of Revelation can and has been interpreted (Since a lot of it comes from Daniel)

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

It only proves that I believe in something that cannot be proven.

Can you prove that God does not exist?

You can not even prove that you, yourself exist.
I do not believe you exist, come on prove your existence to me.

I can refute every single argument that you exist, does that prove you do not exist?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Chris, certain characteristics of NDE's may be similar, but other Religions don't see Jesus or the "G-d" of Christianity. This is paramount proof that Culture, Religion, and Parental Upbringing reflect the memory to the point, that visions and sub-conscience dreams reflect this implant of information.

http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=66

"In one study carried out in 1985, the experiences of 16 Asian Indians had been compared with those of Americans and it had been found that the Indians had often encountered Yamraj, the Hindu king of the dead, while the Americans had not.

The largest cross-cultural study had been carried out in 1977 by Osis and Haraldsson and had focused more on deathbed visions. These are the experiences that people have before death, usually in the 24 hours prior to death, and they are different from the classic NDE phenomenon. Deathbed visions are usually reported by carers who have looked after a person during the dying process. In this study the researchers had examined the visions of approximately 440 terminally ill American and Indian patients as described to their doctors and nurses. The most common feature, which occurred in 91 per cent of cases, was seeing deceased relatives. In 140 cases there were reports of seeing religious figures, usually described as an angel or God. Where these were specifically identified, they were always described according to the person’s religious beliefs: no Hindu reported seeing Jesus, and no Christian a Hindu deity."

http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html

"A comparison of Hindu near-death experiences with western accounts reveals the following:
(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher, Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

(2) Only one account contained an out-of-body experience, which is another aspect that is frequently found in western accounts. Osis and Haraldsson did find several accounts of out-of-body experience in the Indian near-death experiences they researched.

(3) Consistent with western accounts, some Hindu near-death accounts included a life review. However, whereas in western accounts the life review often consists of seeing a panoramic view of a person's entire life, Hindu accounts consists of having someone read the record of the dying person's life called the "akashic record." In Christian circles, this is equivalent to reading from the "Book of Life" as known from the Christian doctrine of the resurrection. In Hindu circles, it is a traditional belief that the reading of a person's akashic record occurs immediately after death. This concept is widely believed by Hindus all over India. However, the panoramic life review, which is commonly mentioned in western accounts, does not appear in accounts from India.

(4) As in western accounts, Hindu near-death accounts sometimes describe the meeting of religious deities and deceased loved ones."

http://infidels.org/library/modern/g...questions.html

"Not surprisingly, when religious figures are reported, Hindus tend to see Hindu religious figures, while Christians tend to see Christian religious figures. Moreover, many of the NDErs who report such encounters never question the apparent identity of such transcendental religious figures. But if the NDE reveals an objective transcendental world where deceased souls share eternal life, why does it feature the parochial gods of particular religions? I call these gods parochial because they are limited to this planet, and because belief in them only has a history of about 5,000 years—which is a fairly miniscule period of time compared to eternity. Shall we posit an afterlife divided into separate compartments for Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and so on? Compared to the eternity for which people are dead, people are alive for an extremely short period of time. So why do NDErs only report seeing the geographically and temporally local pantheons of gods of the religions that they know, instead of being awed by the true grandeur of a glorious eternal afterlife? This question has hitherto never raised by NDE investigators."

I do believe we can project our expectations onto what we see. If we don't all see the very same thing (as your data supposes), then it definitely can't be a universal chemical response that causes "out of body experiences", the effect of "floating", the "tunnel effect"... and the illusion of a "bright light".

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Can you prove that God does not exist?

You can not even prove that you, yourself exist.
I do not believe you exist, come on prove your existence to me.

I can refute every single argument that you exist, does that prove you do not exist?

One thing I do know, I'm not the one using a fake Profile Picture.