Significance of Names and Persons

[Praxeas]

This is part of an old thread at NFCF...unfortunately I don't remember exactly what I posted

Here is another interesting thing I posted at the old and now defunct NFCF...."names" is used in scriptures to show number of persons

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about a hundred and twenty,)

A.T. Robertson says
Multitude of persons (ochlos onomatōn). Literally, multitude of names. This Hebraistic use of onoma = person occurs in the lxx (Numbers 1:2; 18:20; 3:40, 43; 26:53) and in Rev_3:4; Rev_11:13.

I am just wondering if perhaps if a Trinity is intended why not say "names" in places like Matt 28:19

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is part of an old thread at NFCF...unfortunately I don't remember exactly what I posted

Here is another interesting thing I posted at the old and now defunct NFCF...."names" is used in scriptures to show number of persons

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about a hundred and twenty,)

A.T. Robertson says
Multitude of persons (ochlos onomatōn). Literally, multitude of names. This Hebraistic use of onoma = person occurs in the lxx (Numbers 1:2; 18:20; 3:40, 43; 26:53) and in Rev_3:4; Rev_11:13.

I am just wondering if perhaps if a Trinity is intended why not say "names" in places like Matt 28:19

I'm not convinced that there is any real significance in the phrase "the number of the names" in Acts 1:15. It appears to be more along the lines of "there were x number of names listed on the membership roll." In Matthew 28:19, the use of "name" seems to suggest authority and not personage, e.g. "stop in the name of the law" is simply a command to stop and provides the authority to issue the command (the authority being "the law").

I have not come across any modern Trinitarian who can adequately explain how the Bible "proves" that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are, to quote some of their statements of faith, "co-equal, co-eternal divine persons."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

I'm not convinced that there is any real significance in the phrase "the number of the names" in Acts 1:15. It appears to be more along the lines of "there were x number of names listed on the membership roll." In Matthew 28:19, the use of "name" seems to suggest authority and not personage, e.g. "stop in the name of the law" is simply a command to stop and provides the authority to issue the command (the authority being "the law").

I have not come across any modern Trinitarian who can adequately explain how the Bible "proves" that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are, to quote some of their statements of faith, "co-equal, co-eternal divine persons."

You are mostly correct, but still number of names are used to present how many persons were present. This example is used elsewhere too. Name represents the person too and from whom that authority is derived

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You are mostly correct, but still number of names are used to present how many persons were present. This example is used elsewhere too. Name represents the person too and from whom that authority is derived

But we must not mix the two together. In the passage you quoted from Acts "names" appears to be a stand-in for "persons" or "people." In Matthew 28:19, "name" appears to be strictly limited to "authority" or "power."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Chan

But we must not mix the two together. In the passage you quoted from Acts "names" appears to be a stand-in for "persons" or "people." In Matthew 28:19, "name" appears to be strictly limited to "authority" or "power."

Strictly limited? How?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

But we must not mix the two together. In the passage you quoted from Acts "names" appears to be a stand-in for "persons" or "people." In Matthew 28:19, "name" appears to be strictly limited to "authority" or "power."

In the context sure. But generally speaking people or persons have names. Names represent persons. The name of Jesus represents Him as well as it represents His authority given to him.

In Matthew 28 Jesus starts off with "All power in heaven and earth is given to me...THEREFORE" and what follows the therefore is the part about baptising in the name.

When He was born it was said "shall call HIS name Jesus for HE shall save HIS people from their sins"...

The only reason in Acts they could use names to count persons is because of that principle....persons have names and we give names to persons. The name represents that person, who they are. And in the case of Jesus it represents what he is (savior) and that name represents the authority given to Him personally

Originally Posted by Praxeas

In the context sure. But generally speaking people or persons have names. Names represent persons. The name of Jesus represents Him as well as it represents His authority given to him.

Context is all that matters.

In Matthew 28 Jesus starts off with "All power in heaven and earth is given to me...THEREFORE" and what follows the therefore is the part about baptising in the name.

But notice it says that because all power (which one could say also includes authority) has been given to Jesus, we are to baptize in that power and/or authority. It has nothing with saying the name "Jesus" like some magical incantation as some people insist.

When He was born it was said "shall call HIS name Jesus for HE shall save HIS people from their sins"...

Yes, and the Aramaic form of that name is essentially the same as the name of Moses' successor following the Exodus: Yehoshua or (to use the English equivalent) Joshua.

The only reason in Acts they could use names to count persons is because of that principle....persons have names and we give names to persons. The name represents that person, who they are. And in the case of Jesus it represents what he is (savior) and that name represents the authority given to Him personally

But there is nothing particularly special about the fact that Luke just happened to refer to the names to count persons any more than there is something particularly special about referring to people as "souls" (as in "the ship sank and all the souls onboard were lost").

[Sojourner Trut]

Matt. 28:19 "...baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," means different things to different people, mainly because of semantics. Trinitarians say there is only One God, triune, with 3 "persons" in the One Godhead. Oneness Apostolics say there is only One God, but there are 3 "manifestations" in the One Godhead. It's odd that the writer of the "Foreward" in the UPCI Ministers' Manual writes, "In the days of Tertullian (A.D. 207)...the gifts and manifestations of theApostolic church were much in evidence as the revival spirit swept over the country." (p.23) Tertullian was the first person recorded to use the word "trinity" and also to speak of "Persons" in the Godhead. He's interesting. Google him and see that he was "hard" and "harsh" in defense of the developing Roman Catholic Church, persecuting Jewish Christians for playing sofars, and celebrating feast days, even though they were worshipping as devoted Christians. He made it his life's work to punish "heretics"--that is, all who didn't belong to his brand of Christianity. (That would have been you and me.) Think about it. For your own sake, for your children's sake, for God's sake, do some research. Think about what you're ascribing to, and stop lightly discussing things you know little about. As to whether Matt. 28:19 means one or three names, it could mean three. It reads in the Name of the Father *and* of the Son *and* of the Holy Spirit." That could mean three different Names. Yaweh is the Hebrew Name of the Father, Jesus is the Name of the Son. Now we have a problem. What is the Name of the Holy Spirit? The argument over baptismal formulas makes as much sense as the ancient argument about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Get over yourselves. Go, preach Christ and Him crucified. Stop driving people away with nonsense and attract them to the One True God, by being learned, sensible, loving, and truthful. Lead by example, exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. People will come to you. Will you be ready to show yourself a workman that needs not to be ashamed, as Paul instructed Timothy? Or will you be too busy defending doctrines you have not studied for yourselves?