R. Warren and his Impact on Apostolic?

[Blubayou]

This may have been discussed before, but indulge me. While on vacation, I read a biography of Rick Warren and the story behind the establishing of Saddle back Church. The title of the book is " A Life with a Purpose". Now, I have read the "Purpose Driven Life", but have not followed the movement closely. I did find that R. Warren philosophy has really infiltrated our movement. Especially with younger ministers. One observation I made while reading the book is that at the beginning of R. Warren's ministry, the denomination he came from was mired in a traditional way of delivering the gospel. R. Warren developed some new ideas and delivery methods and really reached for the unchurched. DUH?? I see some parallels between where this denomination was in the early 70's and where we are now as a movement. I think one positive that R. Warren has going for him is that he found a very practical way to deliver the gospel to the masses that is very understandable. I do not think that everything R. Warren does should be copied in our movement, but I do think a study of his methods and philosophy would be beneficial. What say ye about R. Warren?

[Steve Epley]

I have NOT read his book but heard so much about it on here I have no desire to. I am NOT interested in anything he has to say about growing the church. Firstly he is NOT in the church so he does NOT have a clue.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have NOT read his book but heard so much about it on here I have no desire to. I am NOT interested in anything he has to say about growing the church. Firstly he is NOT in the church so he does NOT have a clue.

Bro. Epley,

I disagree with you. Rick Warren has hit on a concept that I have believed since a young person. If we utilize people in the areas of giftedness rather than make them do what we want, to prove they are under submission, then we would grow our churches.

Many are so afraid of losing control, or failing to have ultimate control that they beat people down and make them not want to participate in any area of involvement.

Little churches stay little for a reason. They are small minded and have no true vision and they look at the church as their kingdom instead of God's.

Rick Warren may not have all the truth, but he has more truth than you give him credit for.

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Little churches stay little for a reason. They are small minded and have no true vision and they look at the church as their kingdom instead of God's.

If the size of a "church" is the major factor for determining "correctness" of method, then I guess we should all just become Catholic.

[ChristopherHall]

I read Warran's book PDC and it was ok. I wasn't super impressed with it. I got more out of Bro. David K. Bernard's, Growing a Church: Seven Apostolic Principles.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have NOT read his book but heard so much about it on here I have no desire to. I am NOT interested in anything he has to say about growing the church. Firstly he is NOT in the church so he does NOT have a clue.

PREACH IT!!!!!

[bishoph]

While I believe there are some things one can learn from Rick Warren as well as any other non-Apostolic, one thing is sure we are not playing the same game and the rules are different. (If they're playing baseball, we're playing football.)

I personally had the opportunity to meet with a Pastor George Rayburn (now pastor of Pathway Community Church in Peoria AZ) who is a former Vineyard pastor and who was asked by Rick Warren to oversee the "Pentecostal/Charasmatic" arm of the Purpose Driven development. Pastor George shared with me that every Pentecostal/Charasmatic church in America who had attempted to assimilate the Purpose Driven Model into their churches had seen a remarkable change in their services. The Pentecostal/Charasmatic display of the gifts and worship had diminished or disappeared altogether.

As he shared with me he noted that when this happened in his church (Pure Heart in Phoenix at that time) he fell on his face before God and determined that if this was the cost of the Purpose Driven model it was one he was not willing to pay. They have tried for years to find a way to mesh the two, and they have yet to succeed. I wonder why?

Just a side note concerning where his denomination was in the 70's (Southern Baptist) was where we are attempting to go...... they were on TV. LOL I just couldn't resist

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by bishoph

While I believe there are some things one can learn from Rick Warren as well as any other non-Apostolic, one thing is sure we are not playing the same game and the rules are different. (If they're playing baseball, we're playing football.)

I personally had the opportunity to meet with a Pastor George Rayburn (now pastor of Pathway Community Church in Peoria AZ) who is a former Vineyard pastor and who was asked by Rick Warren to oversee the "Pentecostal/Charasmatic" arm of the Purpose Driven development. Pastor George shared with me that every Pentecostal/Charasmatic church in America who had attempted to assimilate the Purpose Driven Model into their churches had seen a remarkable change in their services. The Pentecostal/Charasmatic display of the gifts and worship had diminished or disappeared altogether.

As he shared with me he noted that when this happened in his church (Pure Heart in Phoenix at that time) he fell on his face before God and determined that if this was the cost of the Purpose Driven model it was one he was not willing to pay. They have tried for years to find a way to mesh the two, and they have yet to succeed. I wonder why?

Just a side note concerning where his denomination was in the 70's (Southern Baptist) was where we are attempting to go...... they were on TV. LOL I just couldn't resist

You mean to tell me that he said "EVERY"? If he did then he was wrong. I know of a church where we used RW's Purpose driven life materials, but taught with annointing and Power of the Holy Ghost and it did not change (negatively) our worship or the moving of the Spirit one bit. It did cause many to evaulate their lives, to determine if they were following afer His Purpose.

Biblical Truth is Truth no matter who write a book or creates a program about it.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

You mean to tell me that he said "EVERY"? If he did then he was wrong. I know of a church where we used RW's Purpose driven life materials, but taught with annointing and Power of the Holy Ghost and it did not change (negatively) our worship or the moving of the Spirit one bit. It did cause many to evaulate their lives, to determine if they were following afer His Purpose.

Biblical Truth is Truth no matter who write a book or creates a program about it.

He did indeed say "every" church. The difference is you are referring to using some of his material, which is an animal of a different nature. We can use Rick Warrens material, or any other non-Apostolic, tailoring it to our message and it will work if it is grounded in truth. There is a huge difference in using some of his material and modeling the whole church after the Purpose Driven Model.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by bishoph

While I believe there are some things one can learn from Rick Warren as well as any other non-Apostolic, one thing is sure we are not playing the same game and the rules are different. (If they're playing baseball, we're playing football.)

I personally had the opportunity to meet with a Pastor George Rayburn (now pastor of Pathway Community Church in Peoria AZ) who is a former Vineyard pastor and who was asked by Rick Warren to oversee the "Pentecostal/Charasmatic" arm of the Purpose Driven development. Pastor George shared with me that every Pentecostal/Charasmatic church in America who had attempted to assimilate the Purpose Driven Model into their churches had seen a remarkable change in their services. The Pentecostal/Charasmatic display of the gifts and worship had diminished or disappeared altogether.

As he shared with me he noted that when this happened in his church (Pure Heart in Phoenix at that time) he fell on his face before God and determined that if this was the cost of the Purpose Driven model it was one he was not willing to pay. They have tried for years to find a way to mesh the two, and they have yet to succeed. I wonder why?

Just a side note concerning where his denomination was in the 70's (Southern Baptist) was where we are attempting to go...... they were on TV. LOL I just couldn't resist

Probably the mistake was in thinking this "program" runs itself. No matter what any one church does in organization you will always need the same kind of prayer and fasting that brought the pentecostal movement to the scene like in Azusa street. I don't think there is anything inheritly wrong with such a paradigm of organizing the church and to be sure if every member of the body understood they have a purpose which includes worship and evangelism, this church would explode