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Old 08-04-2018, 03:27 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

When I first got into church, I was taught that when believers sin they are lost until they ask for forgiveness and "get back under the blood."

Do you think this is true? Why or why not?
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:29 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and calls us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to mature, it gives birth to death James 1:15. So, let's put that into rewind, For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sinful action and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death 2 Corinthians 7:10. We are told by the scripture that we are to grow into mature followers of Christ. Willful sin is practicing sin. 1st John 3:1 See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don't recognize that we are God's children because they don't know him. Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? John 14:9. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.

So, we are to be mature in Christ, and deviating from that doesn't happen overnight. The "Christian" who comes home one night and is confronted by his wife, who tells him that she found out about his affair. Didn't lose his position as husband, father, and defender of the faith just one morning. It is a weed that springs up and chokes away the spiritual life Matthew 13:4-8.

1 John 3:3 tells us that we need to do the heavy lifting, to purify ourselves to be as pure as Jesus Christ. This is our journey to be a good soldier in the army of the Lord 2 Timothy 2:1-8. Just as a soldier we are not to be entangled mixed up with the world which is outside of recognizing Jesus Christ. Because by being entangled we lose our position. This isn't about repent, go back repent, go back. If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45. We may come to ourselves as we brings the pig slop to our mouths, but that also might not come overnight. A battleship is pretty big, and the power it takes to turn it around takes a lot. A tractor trailer takes a lot to stop it, Because of its weight and speed. Therefore we should walk in the light, so we can see where we are going. Following a sighted guide who is Jesus Christ, and surrounding ourselves with seasoned mature brethren who won't always tell us that we are right, especially when we are wrong. Because the wounds of a friend are faithful Proverbs 27:6.
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:49 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and calls us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to mature, it gives birth to death James 1:15. So, let's put that into rewind, For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sinful action and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death 2 Corinthians 7:10. We are told by the scripture that we are to grow into mature followers of Christ. Willful sin is practicing sin. 1st John 3:1 See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don't recognize that we are God's children because they don't know him. Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? John 14:9. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.

So, we are to be mature in Christ, and deviating from that doesn't happen overnight. The "Christian" who comes home one night and is confronted by his wife, who tells him that she found out about his affair. Didn't lose his position as husband, father, and defender of the faith just one morning. It is a weed that springs up and chokes away the spiritual life Matthew 13:4-8.

1 John 3:3 tells us that we need to do the heavy lifting, to purify ourselves to be as pure as Jesus Christ. This is our journey to be a good soldier in the army of the Lord 2 Timothy 2:1-8. Just as a soldier we are not to be entangled mixed up with the world which is outside of recognizing Jesus Christ. Because by being entangled we lose our position. This isn't about repent, go back repent, go back. If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45. We may come to ourselves as we brings the pig slop to our mouths, but that also might not come overnight. A battleship is pretty big, and the power it takes to turn it around takes a lot. A tractor trailer takes a lot to stop it, Because of its weight and speed. Therefore we should walk in the light, so we can see where we are going. Following a sighted guide who is Jesus Christ, and surrounding ourselves with seasoned mature brethren who won't always tell us that we are right, especially when we are wrong. Because the wounds of a friend are faithful Proverbs 27:6.
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2018, 05:19 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
God is patient and long suffering and not willing that any of us perish.

I believe unrepentant sin will send you to hell. but, if we are going on to perfection but stumble, I think God will make a way for us to repent.

Romans 2
2 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:15 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
I believe unrepentant sin will send you to hell. but, if we are going on to perfection but stumble, I think God will make a way for us to repent.
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:27 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
What is the difference of "sinned" and "sinning"

Which is which?
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:55 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
I think God is long suffering and will try to draw us back to Him. I believe God gives people 2nd and 3rd chances.

I have a relative who walked closely with God for 20 years, but now she rarely comes to church, her priorities are worldly entertainment and fun. But God is still working on her, drawing her. When she does come to church she prays and feels the presence of God. I know that God has not given up on her and is drawing her back to himself.

How many of us know backsliders that we are praying that God will convict them and bring them home, like the parable of the lost sheep, coin, son

Luke 15
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

*************

I also think that if a Christian makes a mistake, God will convict them and draw them to repentance if they have a heart for God.
David was a man after God's heart. when he fell into sin, God sent Nathan the prophet to convict David to repentance.
The price he paid for his sin was horrible, Tamar raped, Amnon murdered, Absalom betraying him and killed, on and on the sorrow went.

*************

There also comes a time when people cant find the place of repentance, like Essau or Judas, and they lose out with God.

You can't play with God. If you mess up and can't find a place of repentance, you will face destruction.

ok, now the theologians/elders can sort this out.

Last edited by Amanah; 08-04-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 06:39 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Thank you for the reply. To clarify, as I'm in this process of maturing, which means I am not perfect, when I falter and sin because I'm not fully mature, am I lost until I ask for forgiveness?
Hi Bro,

Several things are in play. How long does the process of maturing take? We DO want to emphasize the merciful kindness of Jesus Christ. Let us cleave to him and his mercy.

Also consider Anannias and Saphira. How long were they saved? A month? Two? Probably not more than six anyway. They agreed together to tell a lie. How mature were they?

God killed them. I have heard people many times saying they sin everyday, and there supposed to have been saved for decades. Should these be "mature"? Should they be "perfect"?

They will always say God is still working with me! None of us are perfect!

IS THIS BIBLICAL DISCIPLESHIP?

Did not Jesus say:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Is this supposed to take our entire lifetime? Or is it supposed to happen to us relatively quickly so we can be WITNESSES OF JESUS CHRIST?

Are we his witness if we are continuing in sin? OR when we are overcoming sin?

When we continue sinning we are witnessing of Jesus that we say created millions of galaxies but cannot keep us from sin. GOD FORBID!

If our "Preachers" fill us with the notion we cannot consistently obey God we probably will not be an overcomer.

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 08-04-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:25 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Hi Bro,

Several things are in play. How long does the process of maturing take? We DO want to emphasize the merciful kindness of Jesus Christ. Let us cleave to him and his mercy.

Also consider Anannias and Saphira. How long were they saved? A month? Two? Probably not more than six anyway. They agreed together to tell a lie. How mature were they?

God killed them. I have heard people many times saying they sin everyday, and there supposed to have been saved for decades. Should these be "mature"? Should they be "perfect"?

They will always say God is still working with me! None of us are perfect!

IS THIS BIBLICAL DISCIPLESHIP?

Did not Jesus say:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Is this supposed to take our entire lifetime? Or is it supposed to happen to us relatively quickly so we can be WITNESSES OF JESUS CHRIST?

Are we his witness if we are continuing in sin? OR when we are overcoming sin?

When we continue sinning we are witnessing of Jesus that we say created millions of galaxies but cannot keep us from sin. GOD FORBID!

If our "Preachers" fill us with the notion we cannot consistently obey God we probably will not be an overcomer.

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.
Ananias and Sapphira were Hellenized Judeans, who were well educated in Torah. They totally understood what they were doing. They wouldn't be considered as "new converts" in some new religion. Because it was first century Judaism, fulfilled, it had its awaited messiah. Judaism was waiting for a Messiah Isaiah 11:1-9, Isaiah 2:3-4, Micah 4:2-3. correct? So Ananias and Sapphira were waiting for a messiah, and understood why they were selling off property Jeremiah 32:10-15. So they knew better to lie to the Holy Ghost.

The new converts who were clueless until they totally understood were the Romans.
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~Declaration of Independence
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:38 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Hi Bro,

I think before God will erase a name out of his book GENERALLY SPEAKING he will chasten the sinning one.

If one fears God just the thought of being CHASTENED much less losing our salvation could restrain them from many sins.

So the Lord MAY not quickly take away ones salvation but rather chasten them sore in his desire to see repentance. What a thing to look forward to!

Much better to love and fear God always.

But my main point is that it would SEEM that Jesus expects his people to be perfect just as a matter of course. Not something that would take decades.
There is no doubt that the goal is sinless perfection (1 John 2:1). I do not think people will achieve that in this life (1 John 1:8), though I do believe people can live lives characterized by victory.

I think that, yes, the Father chastens his children; otherwise, we wouldn't be children. But does that mean the child is lost the very moment he or she fails to do or not do something the Father has commanded? In other words, is the child lost--has the Father kicked the child from the Father's house--while the Father is chastising him?

Does the way good, but imperfect, parents deal with their imperfect children give us insight into how the most perfect Father deals his erring children?

"Much better to love and fear God always." Indeed and amen.

I wonder if we all mean the same thing by "sin." It often seems people are thinking of "major" sins of commission, which they of course are not committing, but not of, for example, sins of the attitude or sins of omission. I also wonder if those we live or work with and who are kindly disposed toward us might recognize that we are falling short more often than we might be inclined to think. :-)
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