Video: Soul Sleep Mortal To Immortal

[Michael The Disciple]

[Apostolic1ness]

I cant gather what you are teaching here are you saying that the spirit or soul of man ceases to exist when the person dies?

Ecclesiastes 12:7.."paraphrase" dust returns to earth and the spirit back to God who gave it
John 11:26 Jesus says if we live and love Him we will never die..
Luke 16 Lazarus and Rich man...was this a parable?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I cant gather what you are teaching here are you saying that the spirit or soul of man ceases to exist when the person dies?

Ecclesiastes 12:7.."paraphrase" dust returns to earth and the spirit back to God who gave it
John 11:26 Jesus says if we live and love Him we will never die..
Luke 16 Lazarus and Rich man...was this a parable?

Ecclesiastes 12:7.....The Spirit goes to God but is not saved until the rapture.

3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

John 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Tho he were dead....

Was Abraham and the rich man a parable?

Must have been. Paul said ONLY JESUS HAS IMMORTALITY. 1 Tim. 6: 14-16

14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Did you listen to the video? What about the things I taught on it?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ecclesiastes 12:7.....The Spirit goes to God but is not saved until the rapture.

3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

John 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Tho he were dead....

Was Abraham and the rich man a parable?

Must have been. Paul said ONLY JESUS HAS IMMORTALITY. 1 Tim. 6: 14-16

14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Did you listen to the video? What about the things I taught on it?

I did listen to the teaching.
How would you explain 2 Corinthians 5:8, is Paul not speaking about his soul to be present with Jesus?
How would you explain Acts 7:59, Is not Stephen saying to Jesus to receive his spirit.
How would you explain Rev.6:9-10 the souls of them that were slain for the word of God were crying out to God and was given white robes and told to rest and wait for their brethren that should be killed as they were. ..........were these souls dead or alive? were these souls saved? were they waiting for the redemption of the body?

based on your teaching the soul dies when the body dies, is this what i understand you teach?

[Michael The Disciple]

How would you explain 2 Corinthians 5:8, is Paul not speaking about his soul to be present with Jesus?

Does the word "soul" appear anywhere in the context? Paul told us WHEN we would be with Jesus.

In the nearby context of 2 Cor. 4:13-14 we find when we will be present with the Lord.

13We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Paul knew Jesus would raise him up with the saints.

In 2 Cor 5:8 Paul simply says we are willing to be absent from our present bodies and to be with the Lord. He does not say it happens at that instant. It's a general statement.

Jesus tells us WHEN his people will be with him.

John 14:1-3

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Verse 3 Jesus is saying when he comes again he will receive us to himself.

How would you explain Acts 7:59, Is not Stephen saying to Jesus to receive his spirit.

His spirit is his life. He asked Jesus to receive it. Paul taught that a dead Christian's spirit will not be saved until Jesus comes.

1 Cor. 5:5

3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

How would you explain Rev.6:9-10 the souls of them that were slain for the word of God were crying out to God and was given white robes and told to rest and wait for their brethren that should be killed as they were. ..........were these souls dead or alive? were these souls saved? were they waiting for the redemption of the body?

The vision John receives is to be an encouragement to the living. "Souls" under the altar speaks of the fact they sacrificed their lives for Christ. If this were not a vision but rather literal reality it would mean the souls in Heaven are not really experiencing bliss and happiness. They are crying out for revenge. If martyrs spend their time from the time they arrived in Heaven till the second coming some would be standing under the altar crying for revenge for thousands of years.

More likely the vision is meant for the living to understand Jesus has not forgotten them. He tells them to CONTINUE TO REST. The Greek word there I believe means to "repose". Sounds like he is telling them to "sleep" a little while longer until the time is right for his coming.

These souls were dead in reality but they were alive in a vision. They were saved by faith, because they died in Jesus but they would not be awakened out of sleep until the day of redemption.

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto [B]the day of redemption.

based on your teaching the soul dies when the body dies, is this what i understand you teach?

This teaching in the Bible is called THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

It is one of the foundation doctrines of Christ.

Hebrews 6:1-2

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Note that it does not say "resurrection of the dead BODIES." That thought is inserted by many. It simply says resurrection of THE DEAD.

Persons die. For them to live again they have to be raised up as Paul showed in 2 Cor 4:14.

14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Also note the term "immortal soul" does not appear as a foundation doctrine. If it were true it would be greater than the doctrine of the resurrection would it not? Yet the resurrection is foundational while immortal soul does not appear.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Does the word "soul" appear anywhere in the context? Paul told us WHEN we would be with Jesus.

In the nearby context of 2 Cor. 4:13-14 we find when we will be present with the Lord.

13We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Paul knew Jesus would raise him up with the saints.

In 2 Cor 5:8 Paul simply says we are willing to be absent from our present bodies and to be with the Lord. He does not say it happens at that instant. It's a general statement.

Jesus tells us WHEN his people will be with him.

John 14:1-3

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Verse 3 Jesus is saying when he comes again he will receive us to himself.



His spirit is his life. He asked Jesus to receive it. Paul taught that a dead Christian's spirit will not be saved until Jesus comes.

1 Cor. 5:5

3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



The vision John receives is to be an encouragement to the living. "Souls" under the altar speaks of the fact they sacrificed their lives for Christ. If this were not a vision but rather literal reality it would mean the souls in Heaven are not really experiencing bliss and happiness. They are crying out for revenge. If martyrs spend their time from the time they arrived in Heaven till the second coming some would be standing under the altar crying for revenge for thousands of years.

More likely the vision is meant for the living to understand Jesus has not forgotten them. He tells them to CONTINUE TO REST. The Greek word there I believe means to "repose". Sounds like he is telling them to "sleep" a little while longer until the time is right for his coming.

These souls were dead in reality but they were alive in a vision. They were saved by faith, because they died in Jesus but they would not be awakened out of sleep until the day of redemption.

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto [B]the day of redemption.


This teaching in the Bible is called THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

It is one of the foundation doctrines of Christ.

Hebrews 6:1-2

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Note that it does not say "resurrection of the dead BODIES." That thought is inserted by many. It simply says resurrection of THE DEAD.

Persons die. For them to live again they have to be raised up as Paul showed in 2 Cor 4:14.

14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Also note the term "immortal soul" does not appear as a foundation doctrine. If it were true it would be greater than the doctrine of the resurrection would it not? Yet the resurrection is foundational while immortal soul does not appear.

So the question remains
1. does the soul die with the body?

2. where does the soul go after the death of the body?

3. in Rev are the souls alive or dead in the vision?

4. on the mount of transfiguration when Moses talked to Jesus was that Moses' flesh, spirit, or other.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

So the question remains
1. does the soul die with the body?

2. where does the soul go after the death of the body?

3. in Rev are the souls alive or dead in the vision?

4. on the mount of transfiguration when Moses talked to Jesus was that Moses' flesh, spirit, or other.

1. Many verses say the soul can die or does die.

Here is a sample.

Joshua 10:28

28And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:29

29Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:30

31And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

James the brother of Jesus taught souls can die.

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2. The soul is basically the person.

Gen 2:7

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God made a form in his own image but out of the dust. It must have been like a earthly statue. It had no life. Then YAH breathed into his nostrils and he came alive.

So Gods breath (spirit in Hebrew) went into the nose of man. That brought man alive. The combination of mans body and Gods breath (spirit) connecting created a "soul". Verse 7 says a "living soul".

No Bible verse uses the phrase "immortal soul".

Job 27:2-3

2As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Note Job's breath is the spirit of God IN HIS NOSTRILS.

In the Bible when men "gave up the ghost" it meant the breath God gave them was leaving them. When we no longer breathe we die.

Job 34:14-15

14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The process of how we get life is reversed when we lose life. The breath God gives us goes out and we die. The MAN dies. The soul is the combination of flesh and Gods breath or "spirit of life".

Note that its not just the righteous whose spirit goes back to God who gave it but all men. So when a man dies nothing about him is still alive.

Psalms 146:3-4

3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.



3. The souls in the vision are part of a vision. There are no immortal souls alive in Heaven.

Remember Paul taught Timothy,

JESUS ONLY HAS IMMORTALITY. 1 Tim 6:16

4. When Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the mount Matthew explained what was happening.

9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

YAH granted a message to Jesus through a vision of Moses and Elijah. Neither of them were still alive.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

1. Many verses say the soul can die or does die.

Here is a sample.

Joshua 10:28

28And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:29

29Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:30

31And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

James the brother of Jesus taught souls can die.

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2. The soul is basically the person.

Gen 2:7

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God made a form in his own image but out of the dust. It must have been like a earthly statue. It had no life. Then YAH breathed into his nostrils and he came alive.

So Gods breath (spirit in Hebrew) went into the nose of man. That brought man alive. The combination of mans body and Gods breath (spirit) connecting created a "soul". Verse 7 says a "living soul".

No Bible verse uses the phrase "immortal soul".

Job 27:2-3

2As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Note Job's breath is the spirit of God IN HIS NOSTRILS.

In the Bible when men "gave up the ghost" it meant the breath God gave them was leaving them. When we no longer breathe we die.

Job 34:14-15

14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The process of how we get life is reversed when we lose life. The breath God gives us goes out and we die. The MAN dies. The soul is the combination of flesh and Gods breath or "spirit of life".

Note that its not just the righteous whose spirit goes back to God who gave it but all men. So when a man dies nothing about him is still alive.

Psalms 146:3-4

3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.



3. The souls in the vision are part of a vision. There are no immortal souls alive in Heaven.

Remember Paul taught Timothy,

JESUS ONLY HAS IMMORTALITY. 1 Tim 6:16

4. When Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the mount Matthew explained what was happening.

9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

YAH granted a message to Jesus through a vision of Moses and Elijah. Neither of them were still alive.

Excellent and concise.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

1. Many verses say the soul can die or does die.

Here is a sample.

Joshua 10:28

28And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:29

29Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

Joshua 10:30

31And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

James the brother of Jesus taught souls can die.

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2. The soul is basically the person.

Gen 2:7

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God made a form in his own image but out of the dust. It must have been like a earthly statue. It had no life. Then YAH breathed into his nostrils and he came alive.

So Gods breath (spirit in Hebrew) went into the nose of man. That brought man alive. The combination of mans body and Gods breath (spirit) connecting created a "soul". Verse 7 says a "living soul".

No Bible verse uses the phrase "immortal soul".

Job 27:2-3

2As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Note Job's breath is the spirit of God IN HIS NOSTRILS.

In the Bible when men "gave up the ghost" it meant the breath God gave them was leaving them. When we no longer breathe we die.

Job 34:14-15

14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The process of how we get life is reversed when we lose life. The breath God gives us goes out and we die. The MAN dies. The soul is the combination of flesh and Gods breath or "spirit of life".

Note that its not just the righteous whose spirit goes back to God who gave it but all men. So when a man dies nothing about him is still alive.

Psalms 146:3-4

3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.



3. The souls in the vision are part of a vision. There are no immortal souls alive in Heaven.

Remember Paul taught Timothy,

JESUS ONLY HAS IMMORTALITY. 1 Tim 6:16

4. When Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the mount Matthew explained what was happening.

9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

YAH granted a message to Jesus through a vision of Moses and Elijah. Neither of them were still alive.

can you explain
John 11:26 ....shall never die...in what way will someone never die?
John 3:15,16 ....should not perish.... in what way will someone not perish?
1 Corinthians 15:17-18...lets us know those that are asleep in Christ have not perished...

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

can you explain
John 11:26 ....shall never die...in what way will someone never die?
John 3:15,16 ....should not perish.... in what way will someone not perish?
1 Corinthians 15:17-18...lets us know those that are asleep in Christ have not perished...

John 11:26

Perhaps reading the verse before this one would answer your first 2 questions.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Tho he were dead...yet shall he live. Because of Jesus power to raise the dead.

If the dead never die and are always alive why would Jesus ever have needed to raise anyone? Why would there ever need to be a resurrection if no one ever dies?

As to this.

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Paul is teaching the resurrection of THE DEAD this entire chapter. Have you noticed in all 58 verses in this chapter teaching the GOSPEL, it so happens there is not ONE MENTION of anyone dying and being immediately in Heaven.

If our immortal soul never dying was true
THAT
would be the (good news) gospel. But Paul never mentions such a thing in the entire chapter.

And verse 18 which you commented on pertains to the fact if Christ was not himself raised from the dead then all those who are asleep in Jesus are perished.

Not that their souls are alive and just their bodies would be perished. THEY THEMSELVES would be perished because the only hope they have is THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD to wake them up.