Canadian Healthcare the real story

[aegsm76]

For those here who are in love with Canada's system of healthcare, please read this:
link
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...autionary-tale
snippets
Canada’s largest province is projected to see health-care costs soar to the point where they will consume 80 percent of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46 percent in 2010.
Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.
In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

For those here who are in love with Canada's system of healthcare, please read this:
link
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...autionary-tale
snippets
Canada’s largest province is projected to see health-care costs soar to the point where they will consume 80 percent of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46 percent in 2010.
Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.
In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system.

Have you no shame?! Canada is the pristine example of goobermint run health care!

[Aquila]

Watch, Canada will find a way to make it work. No one said single payer is easy or doesn't have its challenges. But it is sure better than having 50 million uninsured and an average of 45,000 dying every year from treatable conditions which is what we see in the United States.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Watch, Canada will find a way to make it work. No one said single payer is easy or doesn't have its challenges. But it is sure better than having 50 million uninsured and an average of 45,000 dying every year from treatable conditions which is what we see in the United States.

I have never seen any studies that stated we had 50 million uninsured.
Can you give me a link?
Also you might want to go read this article.
link
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...-in-canada.pdf
snippet
We find that, over this 16-year period, increases in wait times for medically necessary elective treatment may be associated with 44,273 additional female deaths (with a 95% confidence interval from 25,456 to 63,090).
This represents approximately 2.5% of total female deaths during the period or 1.2% of total mortality (male and female) during the period.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I have never seen any studies that stated we had 50 million uninsured.
Can you give me a link?
Also you might want to go read this article.
link
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...-in-canada.pdf
snippet
We find that, over this 16-year period, increases in wait times for medically necessary elective treatment may be associated with 44,273 additional female deaths (with a 95% confidence interval from 25,456 to 63,090).
This represents approximately 2.5% of total female deaths during the period or 1.2% of total mortality (male and female) during the period.

I know you're a conservative, so I'll be merciful and give you time to do your own homework on the issue. The average was said to be roughly 50 million uninsured. And the average number of deaths among the uninsured per year was considered to be roughly 45,000 a year.

Please note, in July of 2007, my mother was one of those 45,000 uninsured Americans who died from a condition that could have been treatable. Things might have been different if she had insurance and could have seen a specialist.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know you're a conservative, so I'll be merciful and give you time to do your own homework on the issue. The average was said to be roughly 50 million uninsured. And the average number of deaths among the uninsured per year was considered to be roughly 45,000 a year.

From 2009, when job loss was at its peak (and likely the loss of insurance as well), there were thought to be approximately 46 million without insurance. Again this number is skewed as job losses likely inflated the number of uninsured.

Harvard did a study and came up with 45,000/yr deaths of uninsured. The number is disputed and most say the number is closer to 30,000/yr.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note, in July of 2007, my mother was one of those 45,000 uninsured Americans who died from a condition that could have been treatable. Things might have been different if she had insurance and could have seen a specialist.

Pardon my skepticism, but there is likely more to the story than what you've repeated in various posts.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know you're a conservative, so I'll be merciful and give you time to do your own homework on the issue. The average was said to be roughly 50 million uninsured. And the average number of deaths among the uninsured per year was considered to be roughly 45,000 a year.

Please note, in July of 2007, my mother was one of those 45,000 uninsured Americans who died from a condition that could have been treatable. Things might have been different if she had insurance and could have seen a specialist.

Already did my homework and I could not find anything to support your claim.
Also, I have refrained from questions about your mothers situation, due to obvious reasons.
But when you continue to bring it up to bolster your position that everyone should have healthcare, it does make me wonder more about the story.
I know you have shared some details before and I am not asking for any details and do not want to know them.
But, you are effectively using a personal tragedy to stifle debate on an issue.
Please do not take this the wrong way, as I do consider you my brother in Christ and would not try to offend you.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know you're a conservative, so I'll be merciful and give you time to do your own homework on the issue. The average was said to be roughly 50 million uninsured. And the average number of deaths among the uninsured per year was considered to be roughly 45,000 a year.

Please note, in July of 2007, my mother was one of those 45,000 uninsured Americans who died from a condition that could have been treatable. Things might have been different if she had insurance and could have seen a specialist.

Sooooo, now that you bring this up,.....

There was no way that she could have seen a specialist ? No way at all?

No way that she could have went in and somehow come up with the money? I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely no other alternative than the government to help her.

How about your family? Couldn't they have helped her pay?

How about sending her to Mexico, say to Monterrey, that has some of the best doctors out of that country, and it is way cheaper?

See, when we get it in our mind that the government is our only hope then we cross out creative thinking.

I recently had my son who had a medical emergency and I am a self payer. That means I don't have insurance except what I pay. His ambulance was 2500, his doctor was 1500, and the emergency bill was 13500. Total bill for 4 hours was 17,500.00.

But, I am a self payer so I started working out deals. Cutting deals with them is the way to work. They will negotiate, trust me.

So far we are getting things worked out to less than .50 on the dollar.

What kind of specialist did she need?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Sooooo, now that you bring this up,.....

There was no way that she could have seen a specialist ? No way at all?

Nope. She had no insurance. She was divorced and just living paycheck to paycheck.

No way that she could have went in and somehow come up with the money? I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely no other alternative than the government to help her.

She called a few specialists to schedule an appointment. They took her information over the phone to get her scheduled and when she explained that she had no health insurance or money in hand, they explained that they could not schedule her. Everyone one of them did.

How about your family? Couldn't they have helped her pay?

My mother was raised by a single mom (worked as a bar tender and grocery store clerk for years). Mom had one brother and two sisters. All grew up on the East side of Dayton, Ohio. We asked family if they could help with her seeing a doctor, but everyone said they didn't have the extra cash. When mom died, she didn't even have life insurance. Me, my grandmother, and my uncle wiped out our savings to help pay for the funeral. We had a little over half the cost covered. The funeral home wrote off the rest of it.

How about sending her to Mexico, say to Monterrey, that has some of the best doctors out of that country, and it is way cheaper?

Mom couldn't even afford a car, let alone a trip out of the country to see a doctor.

See, when we get it in our mind that the government is our only hope then we cross out creative thinking.

She could have robbed a bank?

I recently had my son who had a medical emergency and I am a self payer. That means I don't have insurance except what I pay. His ambulance was 2500, his doctor was 1500, and the emergency bill was 13500. Total bill for 4 hours was 17,500.00.

But, I am a self payer so I started working out deals. Cutting deals with them is the way to work. They will negotiate, trust me.

I've seen them negotiate with business owners, people who have a significant amount of money to put down, and people who make a rather high income.

Mom was a divorcee, worked as a cashier for just over minimum wage, and had no savings. She had no car and lived in a one bedroom apartment. No one was willing to bargain with her. She had nothing to bargain with.

So far we are getting things worked out to less than .50 on the dollar.

I'm happy for you and I'm glad it is working out. But if you could see beyond yourself for a while, maybe you'll realize that you're blessed to have the privilege to negotiate and bargain. Many are not.

What kind of specialist did she need?

I don't remember the exact title for it. I believe it was some kind of heart and vascular specialist. What complicated matters is that when she wasn't feeling right and went to the ER, they didn't find anything. They attributed her discomfort to stress. One specialist's office seemed to be leaning towards working out something so that she could be seen, but since she had no results indicating an actual condition, they were concerned with all the testing they'd have to perform and the cost of the tests. They advised that the next time she felt discomfort in her chest, she should go to the ER and if they found something she should call them back and they might see what they could do.

Here's something that those in poverty face quite a bit. Mom went to an inner city hospital that sees a lot of uninsured people. People who have no insurance tend to be treated differently at times. While the ER stated that they didn't find anything, I'm not convinced that they ran every test necessary to find the problem. And if that is so, not running every test necessary on account of her being uninsured left her with no results for a specialist to work with. Which only complicated her effort to get into see a specialist.

It's almost like these healthcare providers are in an ivory tower and you're only a lowly peasant begging for what you need to simply live another day. If all you have is an old pair of shoes to offer up in trade for help, they often laugh and ask you to move along from the balcony of the tower. You go home to your shanty and stare at those old shoes realizing that you'll most likely die soon, and someone will walk in and throw those old shoes away. You stare at those shoes, they were your shot in the dark. They were a light of hope. They just weren't enough.

What tears me up is... my mother wasn't alone. During those years an estimated 45,000 Americans were dying every year from treatable conditions because they didn't have insurance or the cold hard cash to pay for care. Those billionaire CEO's of the insurance companies certainly made unbelievable amounts of money, I mean, they made stupid amounts of money. I've attached what the CEOs of leading insurance companies made in 2016 just to give you an example of the stupid kind of money those cats make... as thousands languish and die without the care they need. These are the same people who fill Washington with lobbyists while whining and crying that any national health insurance program would just be too expensive.

I've also attached an older picture of my mom.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

For those here who are in love with Canada's system of healthcare, please read this:
link
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...autionary-tale
snippets
Canada’s largest province is projected to see health-care costs soar to the point where they will consume 80 percent of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46 percent in 2010.
Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.
In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system.

HERE IS THE REAL STORY ABOUT CANADA's SYSTEM:

Total BS has been posted here about the Canadian system.

I am in British Columbia, I pay 150 dollars/month for health care.
Covers my doctors visits, hospital, etc.
My son with wife and 4 children pays the same.

I went through open heart surgery, never cost me a dime.
I was flown by air ambulance a distance of 700 mile to the hospital for emergency help, cost me 50 dollar for the flight.
I DO pay for my own medication because my income is above a certain level and I don't mind paying. I can deduct it from my income taxes.
People who can not pay for medication are taken care of through the welfare system.

Anybody who says that the Canadian system is lousy does not know what he's talking about.
It's the best in the world.

I had knee surgery for free.

Just recently I spend time in the hospital (before Christmas), another heart attack.
Almost died.

They installed a pacemaker free of charge.
Travelled by ambulance 5 hours, free of charge.

Spend days in the hospital.
Several blood tests, lab visits, specialists visits, etc etc all included in the monthly fee of 150 dollars.