The Great Paradox

Jason B · #1 02-04-2011, 08:47 PM

The great paradox: Salvation is freely given by the grace of God, it is unmerited and underserved, yet so many people attempt to earn it by their "works". Whereas, damnation is worked for and deserved (The wages of sin is death), yet many people accept by faith that they are hopelessly lost and can never be saved.

Just thinkin' aloud.

Jason B · #2 02-04-2011, 08:53 PM

So many people try to save themsevles through "works" whether standards, religious rituals, church attendance, correct doctrine, etc. And fail to realize that savlation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Nothing we can do saves us, all we can do is accept by faith the work of Christ (elementary, I know).

Yet damantion is completely deserved. It must be "worked" for, because the wages of sin is death. And as Paul so perfectly pointed out if what we receive is a result of our work, it is debt, not grace.

Thus in effect, we cannot earn salvation, it is wholly of God. But we earn damnation, it is wholly of ourselves.

(BTW-this completely destroys the theory that "God SENDS people to hell." Man sends himself to hell, in fact, he has to earn it-by sinning).

Sam · #3 02-04-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

...Thus in effect, we cannot earn salvation, it is wholly of God. But we earn damnation, it is wholly of ourselves....

(

Reward is for works, justification is by grace

Romans 6:23, "If you go to hell you pay your own way; but you go to heaven on a pass" John R. Rice

Carpenter · #4 02-04-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

The great paradox: Salvation is freely given by the grace of God, it is unmerited and underserved, yet so many people attempt to earn it by their "works". Whereas, damnation is worked for and deserved (The wages of sin is death), yet many people accept by faith that they are hopelessly lost and can never be saved.

Just thinkin' aloud.

You don't have to work to be damned, we as fallen man are born damned, that is why grace is so amazing...The OP church would be 1000000x more powerful if they truly understood the concept of Grace and the fact that we are all morally bankrupt...

Socialite · #5 02-05-2011, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenter

You don't have to work to be damned, we as fallen man are born damned, that is why grace is so amazing...The OP church would be 1000000x more powerful if they truly understood the concept of Grace and the fact that we are all morally bankrupt...

Few of them believe fully in Original Sin, or any shade or spectrum of total depravity. This may undermine their view of both sin and grace.

Austin · #6 02-05-2011, 08:12 AM

In my forty years of knowing the Lord I have yet to find a professing Christian that is without sin! Now I have met many who think they are, but I and Jesus know better. People can pretend and even try to convince themselves and others that they are perfect in their own efforts but the fact of the matter is this. If you in your total person are anything in any area of your life less than what God in His totality is then my friend! You are not sinless and don't "according to some teachings", deserve to go to heaven.
God sees sin not only as the multiple acts of something, He sees sin as the presents of imperfection in reflection to who He is.
True humility is not having a patch sown on the back of your pants and hole in your shoe. It is realizing that you are less than the expectations of God and must be dependent upon His mercy and strenght. This kind of humility comes by revelation through the Holy Ghost. But some people never get it and go through life in a spirit of condemnation, allowing the devil to beat them every day. Jesus help our understanding!

jfrog · #7 02-05-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

In my forty years of knowing the Lord I have yet to find a professing Christian that is without sin! Now I have met many who think they are, but I and Jesus know better. People can pretend and even try to convince themselves and others that they are perfect in their own efforts but the fact of the matter is this. If you in your total person are anything in any area of your life less than what God in His totality is then my friend! You are not sinless and don't "according to some teachings", deserve to go to heaven.
God sees sin not only as the multiple acts of something, He sees sin as the presents of imperfection in reflection to who He is.
True humility is not having a patch sown on the back of your pants and hole in your shoe. It is realizing that you are less than the expectations of God and must be dependent upon His mercy and strenght. This kind of humility comes by revelation through the Holy Ghost. But some people never get it and go through life in a spirit of condemnation, allowing the devil to beat them every day. Jesus help our understanding!

It's probably just their definition of sin is different than yours.

RandyWayne · #8 02-05-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

In my forty years of knowing the Lord I have yet to find a professing Christian that is without sin! Now I have met many who think they are, but I and Jesus know better. People can pretend and even try to convince themselves and others that they are perfect in their own efforts but the fact of the matter is this. If you in your total person are anything in any area of your life less than what God in His totality is then my friend! You are not sinless and don't "according to some teachings", deserve to go to heaven.
God sees sin not only as the multiple acts of something, He sees sin as the presents of imperfection in reflection to who He is.
True humility is not having a patch sown on the back of your pants and hole in your shoe. It is realizing that you are less than the expectations of God and must be dependent upon His mercy and strenght. This kind of humility comes by revelation through the Holy Ghost. But some people never get it and go through life in a spirit of condemnation, allowing the devil to beat them every day. Jesus help our understanding!

I agree 100%.

More then a few people here have declared it possible for a Christian to live sin-free and in fact say it is a requirement to enter heaven. ANY sin present at the time of death will result in eternal punishment.

The problem is that so many look at at everything in a binary way having to decide if every possible thing a person can do is sin or not sin. Example: Gluttony is a SIN, so at what point does eating become gluttony? There HAS to be the ONE tiny morsel, mouthful, or even crumb that defines the line between the two! This way of defining sin misses the mark by a mile. Rather I look at sinlessness as perfection -and sinfulness as anything but, and since NONE of us are perfect (save for Jesus Christ and Mary Poppins) we are ALL sinful, aka, not perfect.

Austin · #9 02-05-2011, 04:08 PM

Thank you Randy!
It's great to hear from someone with some godly sense. Iam happy that I'm cloaked in His righteousness and not my own.It took me about twenty five years to learn that lesson.After learning it and realizing that Jesus loved me not because of anything I did but because He wanted to.I then began to put the pieces together. When the revelation of that truth fully hit me it caused me love Him even more. And now I know for a certainty that salvation is in His hands and not ours. I also realized if no one from Moses to Jesus could keep the law and by it no one was made perfect I kind of figured I was no different. When I trying to keep all the 2,362 commandments of both new and old testment I found the verse in Romans 3;20, and quickly realized I was going about it the wrong way and then the understanding of why I always had so many problems was brought to light. Thank the Lord Jesus that we still have His written word or I could only imagine where people would lead us!
Hebrews Chapter 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered, (ONE SACRIFICE) for (SINS) "plurality, means all sin" (FOREVER) sat down on the right hand of of God. " Sounds like a finished work for all, when are we going to start teling them the good news so they can come to The Lord instead of thinking they can't be forgiven or that God hates them??

Jason B · #10 02-05-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpenter

You don't have to work to be damned, we as fallen man are born damned, that is why grace is so amazing...The OP church would be 1000000x more powerful if they truly understood the concept of Grace and the fact that we are all morally bankrupt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Few of them believe fully in Original Sin, or any shade or spectrum of total depravity. This may undermine their view of both sin and grace.

I think you guys are making too much of my post, which is a generalization, the point being that no matter what we do, God is solely the source of our salvation, not our works. If we end up in heaven it will not be because we "earned" it. On the flip side if we end up in hell, in a real sense it is because of our "works" namely sins we comitted.

I do believe that man is a sinner, depraved, lost, etc.

I don't fully accept the doctrines of Adamic sin and total depravity, because if they are followed to their most consistent logical conclusion, the the infant who dies, despite having no sin of his own, is damned to hell because he is responsible for Adam's sin, and was totally depraved.