When Are We Forgiven?

[notofworks]

There was a statement made on another thread concerning when forgiveness takes place. So I thought I'd post the statement here and see the response.

Here's the statement that was made:

"Forgiveness does not take place at repentance. It happens at baptism:

Agree or disagree?

[iceniez]

Interesting question, I know what Apostolic doctrine teaches..... however When I was Catholic I was in church and I truly had repented of my my sins .It was an Easter morning service and I asked God to forgive me and I heard Him say I was forgiven. Several months later I heard about Baptism in Jesus name for the REMISSION of sins [ or the washing away of those sins ] ,and I was baptized . Was I forgiven When I heard I was forgiven or when I was baptized or both ? I think many sincere folks in all denominations may be forgiven . Some will be content with that and others will search for more and find the biblical truth of Remission of sins and be baptized . Ultimatly God is the judge of us all.

[rgcraig]

Disagree

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Disagree

With ? WHY?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by iceniez

With ? WHY?

He asked if we agreed or disagreed with his question.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

He asked if we agreed or disagreed with his question.

I did understand and I am sorry I thought it was in reply to my post.

[n david]

JMO -

Forgiveness happens at repentence;
Remission (washing away) of sins occurs at baptism.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by n david

JMO -

Forgiveness happens at repentence;
Remission (washing away) of sins occurs at baptism.

This is how I was taught and believe.

Jesus paid the price for our sins already, so when we acknowledge we have sin in our lives by asking him to forgive us (repentence) we are forgiven.

From that moment forward you choose to turn from your sinful ways and live for Him. If we weren't forgiven at that point, what's the purpose of repenting?

Luke 24:46-49 (New International Reader's Version)
46 He told them, "This is what is written. The Christ will suffer. He will rise from the dead on the third day. 47 His followers will preach in his name. They will tell others to turn away from their sins and be forgiven. People from every nation will hear it, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You have seen these things with your own eyes.

49 "I am going to send you what my Father has promised. But for now, stay in the city. Stay there until you have received power from heaven."


And, yes, I believe you are then baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and take on His name. Then, the power from heaven (Holy Ghost) is received to help you live a life pleasing to God.

But this thread is about when are your sins forgiven.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

This is how I was taught and believe.

Jesus paid the price for our sins already, so when we acknowledge we have sin in our lives by asking him to forgive us (repentence) we are forgiven.

From that moment forward you choose to turn from your sinful ways and live for Him. If we weren't forgiven at that point, what's the purpose of repenting?

Luke 24:46-49 (New International Reader's Version)
46 He told them, "This is what is written. The Christ will suffer. He will rise from the dead on the third day. 47 His followers will preach in his name. They will tell others to turn away from their sins and be forgiven. People from every nation will hear it, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You have seen these things with your own eyes.

49 "I am going to send you what my Father has promised. But for now, stay in the city. Stay there until you have received power from heaven."


And, yes, I believe you are then baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin and take on His name. Then, the power from heaven (Holy Ghost) is received to help you live a life pleasing to God.

But this thread is about when are your sins forgiven.

Highlighted: Great point. Renda, any chance you could turn this into a poll? I don't know how to do it.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by n david

JMO -

Forgiveness happens at repentence;
Remission (washing away) of sins occurs at baptism.

I was taught by my UPC pastor that there is a difference between forgiveness and remission. He taught that forgiveness has to do with the penalty of sin and was received at repentance but that remission had to do with cleansing from sin and did not happen until baptism. He used an example of a guest spilling something on a carpet. They were forgiven for their clumsiness when they asked the host to forgive them but the stain wasn't removed until someone cleaned it up. He also used the example of a debt. A debt can be forgiven but it is not paid unless the money is remitted to the creditor. He also taught that we humans cannot forgive sin but we can remit/remove/wash away sin if we baptize someone in Jesus' name.

This teaching is based on the KJV version of Acts 2:38 where, in the opinion of some, remission of sin is connected to water baptism. When the RSV came out in the nineteen fifties, the UPC officially condemned it and an article was written about it in the November 1953 Pentecostal Herald. In the Illinois District Conference a resolution was adopted on May 15, 1953 for "the rejection of the usage of the Revised Standard Version of the Holy Bible in our churches." In the UPC General Conference later that year that same rejection of the use of the RSV was made the official standard of the organization by a resolution adopted. One of the reasons for rejection of the RSV was because it was claimed that Acts 2:38 was mistranslated by using the word "forgiveness" instead of "remission." In that November 1953 Herald, Bro. M.J. Wolff has an article called "The New Bible." He comes down pretty hard on the RSV. He lists several reasons for his rejection of the RSV. Point no. 4 says "The drastic changes made in certain passages of 'this book' are unacceptable to true Christianity: we mention just a few as follows:" He then lists 11 things which to him are "unacceptable to true Christianity." Number 8 of these "unacceptable things is "Acts 2:38 changed to read, 'Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;'" The word "forgiveness" is in bold type in his article.

Since the RSV, other translations of the Bible use the word "forgiveness" in Acts 2:38. The Greek word that is translated "remission" in Acts 2:38 in the KJV is some times translated "forgiveness" in that same version. In a previous post on this forum, the Greek word that is variously translated as "forgiveness" or "remission" was given and every place it occurs in the New Testament was quoted. I could probably find that information if anyone wants it.

So, after all of the above wordiness, what I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, remission and forgiveness are the same thing since they are alternate translations of the same Greek word.