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07-19-2009, 09:55 PM
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Administrator
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Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Tonight I visited my daughter and her husband's Baptist church for the dedication of my granddaughter.
I knew from them that it is one of those "progressive" Baptist churches that has praise and worship music much like a charismatic church, they clap their hands, etc.
The auditorium was very modern. Exposed A/C ductwork. metal beams, etc all painted black. Seats 2,000 including balcony. No pews, padded seats like you see in a lot of modern churches. Four big projections screen across the front. Very shallow platform but wide. Not deep enough for a choir if you wanted one. They use a band and praise and worship singers.
Tonight's service included baby dedications and there were about 15+ babies dedicated.
I missed most of the service because pulling in the parking lot I remembered that I had started putting water in the swimming pool after lunch and after checking on it every hour for a couple of hours had forgotten!!!! It was 6 pm then and I had visions of water cascading over the edge of my pool. The baby dedication was at the beginning of service so as soon as it was done I drove home to take care of the pool and then back. I got back for the last 15 minutes of service.
They showed a slide presentation on the big screen of a big outdoor baptismal service they had last Wednesday. They baptized 91 people!!!! Unfortunetely not in Jesus name.
What was rather ironic is that the last slide in the presentation that held on the screens for a while was a graphic of the cross and then Acts 19:5 below it "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus".
Before service began I grinned and whispered to my son and daughter " do you think they would freak out if I started speaking in tongues in the middle of service?".
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Last edited by CC1; 07-19-2009 at 10:25 PM.
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07-19-2009, 11:06 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
...or slide a long flat box out from under the pew in front of you...
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-20-2009, 08:12 AM
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Christmas 2009
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 9,788
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
I was talking to a lady the other day about Jesus' name baptism and she said "Oh I was baptized that way." Knowing her church background, I was a little surprised and told her so. She said, "Oh yeah, Father, Son & Holy Ghost". She equated that as the same thing. I thought that was a little strange, but I guess she meant she went under believing in the name of the Lord. Not sure.
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07-20-2009, 08:26 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherri
I was talking to a lady the other day about Jesus' name baptism and she said "Oh I was baptized that way." Knowing her church background, I was a little surprised and told her so. She said, "Oh yeah, Father, Son & Holy Ghost". She equated that as the same thing. I thought that was a little strange, but I guess she meant she went under believing in the name of the Lord. Not sure.
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For most baptized, non-Apostolic Christians I know, speaking the Name of Jesus during baptism doesn't matter as much as the heart of the baptized one.
I understand this process, but I am convinced that obeying the Bible is not something to be compromised on.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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07-20-2009, 10:59 AM
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Administrator
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherri
I was talking to a lady the other day about Jesus' name baptism and she said "Oh I was baptized that way." Knowing her church background, I was a little surprised and told her so. She said, "Oh yeah, Father, Son & Holy Ghost". She equated that as the same thing. I thought that was a little strange, but I guess she meant she went under believing in the name of the Lord. Not sure.
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Yup. I am always amazed when someone who baptizes in the titles reads a scripture in acts proclaiming Jesus name baptism. They obviously think they have that covered by "....the Son" in their baptismal formula.
It was ironic that the slide presentation of the baptisms ended with a scripture clearly indicating the church in Acts baptized in Jesus name!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-20-2009, 11:43 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Yup. I am always amazed when someone who baptizes in the titles reads a scripture in acts proclaiming Jesus name baptism. They obviously think they have that covered by "....the Son" in their baptismal formula.
It was ironic that the slide presentation of the baptisms ended with a scripture clearly indicating the church in Acts baptized in Jesus name!
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I'll probably take some heat for this... And I really do understand the arguements...
But what amazes me is one can clearly call on the name of Jesus, and place faith in Him alone for their salvation, yet be considered "not baptised in Jesus Name" because of a technical foul by a third party that is niether giving nor recieving salvation.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-20-2009, 12:52 PM
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Christmas 2009
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 9,788
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I'll probably take some heat for this... And I really do understand the arguements...
But what amazes me is one can clearly call on the name of Jesus, and place faith in Him alone for their salvation, yet be considered "not baptised in Jesus Name" because of a technical foul by a third party that is niether giving nor recieving salvation.
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Well, personally, I think they are baptized into Christ. But because of the way we understand Scripture, we wouldn't do it that way.
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07-20-2009, 03:24 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I'll probably take some heat for this... And I really do understand the arguements...
But what amazes me is one can clearly call on the name of Jesus, and place faith in Him alone for their salvation, yet be considered "not baptised in Jesus Name" because of a technical foul by a third party that is niether giving nor recieving salvation.
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You are obviously way too young to have ever gone to a Marvin Hicks debate with trinitarians to hear him give the example of not being able to cash a check made out to "Son", that you actually have to have the persons name!
(I was a witness to the Hicks - Reynolds debate in Jena Lousisana sometime around 1974 - many years and several wifes ago for Marvin Hicks)
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-21-2009, 12:07 AM
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Christ Follower
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 744
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Yup. I am always amazed when someone who baptizes in the titles reads a scripture in acts proclaiming Jesus name baptism. They obviously think they have that covered by "....the Son" in their baptismal formula.
It was ironic that the slide presentation of the baptisms ended with a scripture clearly indicating the church in Acts baptized in Jesus name!
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I could take a TON of heat and mockery for posting this, but...
A number of years ago I started baptizing by saying, "Upon the confession of your faith, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus' name."
The span of time between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2 is very short. Peter heard very well what Jesus said and there was no confusion at all. The most complete, profound, theologically sound and COMPLETE way to say, "In the name of Jesus", is to say, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
I expect I'll get thrashed for this, but....the first time I said it over a person I baptized, I wept. I've never experienced anything like it. I felt like I finally understood God in His fullness for the first time in my life.
Honestly, I'm frustrated with BOTH sides that fight over this. The harmony between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 is BEAUTIFUL and it's a crying shame that we've made such a mess of it.
You've been kind to me CC1, so no offense at all is intended.
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07-21-2009, 12:19 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Observations at a Contemporary Baptist Church
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irreligious
I could take a TON of heat and mockery for posting this, but...
A number of years ago I started baptizing by saying, "Upon the confession of your faith, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. In Jesus' name."
The span of time between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2 is very short. Peter heard very well what Jesus said and there was no confusion at all. The most complete, profound, theologically sound and COMPLETE way to say, "In the name of Jesus", is to say, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
I expect I'll get thrashed for this, but....the first time I said it over a person I baptized, I wept. I've never experienced anything like it. I felt like I finally understood God in His fullness for the first time in my life.
Honestly, I'm frustrated with BOTH sides that fight over this. The harmony between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 is BEAUTIFUL and it's a crying shame that we've made such a mess of it.
You've been kind to me CC1, so no offense at all is intended. |
I have no problem with you baptismal formula. I think it is fine as I do "....in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ" or as Christ Church baptizes "...in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ".
Since I don't believe trinitarians are polytheistic and are in fact as monotheistic as "Oneness" folks I could go to a trinny church that baptized as you do or like the first example I gave above.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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