UPC Membership

QUOTE=Dora;4203]I thought the manual only applied to the ministers. The members of individual churches really have no "say" and no "rights." Well, that is to say, they have "free-will" to follow the teachings of the pastor. In some cases, it's more like the "dictates" of the pastor.

The people have a choice of whether or not to stay under the leadership of a pastor who teaches strict adherence to "MANual" Standards or go with a pastor who is more balanced.

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC
First of all...they are not ministers. The manual does not apply.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
Uh....the manual is for ministers, not the saints.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord
I agree. Just what does the manual have to do with this anyway? The manual does not govern our lives, the scriptures do.

Originally Posted by vrblackwell
That's not a queation, thats a statment. And as it has already been pointed out, they are not members of the UPCI. They just attend a church that had a UPCI pastor.

There seems to be a controversary on who and what makes a person a memeber of the UPC. I have tried to get a straight answer and nothing yet.
Does anyone know who is a member of the UPC?

1. The licensed minister only?

2. Anyone that attends a church pastored by a UPC minister?

3. Anyone who attends a church pastored by a UPC pastor and observes the teachings of the pastor?

4. Anyone that attends an affiliated UPC church?

5. Anyone that attends an affiliated UPC church and observes the teachings of the pastor?

Thanks please continue.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Garfield

There seems to be a controversary on who and what makes a person a memeber of the UPC. I have tried to get a straight answer and nothing yet.
Does anyone know who is a member of the UPC?

1. The licensed minister only?

2. Anyone that attends a church pastored by a UPC minister?

3. Anyone who attends a church pastored by a UPC pastor and observes the teachings of the pastor?

4. Anyone that attends an affiliated UPC church?

5. Anyone that attends an affiliated UPC church and observes the teachings of the pastor?

Thanks please continue.

It is my opinion that anyone who attends a church pastored by a UPC licensed minister is technically considered a member of the UPC.

As I mentioned on another forum, there are very few churches where the pastor agrees to the AoF, and does not preach and teach those same articles to his congregation.

If he tried to do that, he would be labeled as "charismatic" and life would be difficult for him in the organization, and he may as well forget about any type of district position - except in rare cases.

So, most men that I know who hold a UPC license will preach the articles of faith to some extent to the members of their congregation.

Therefore, the manual extends past the pulpit and into the pew, in most UPC churches.

This is what I've seen in my experience, anyway.

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

It is my opinion that anyone who attends a church pastored by a UPC licensed minister is technically considered a member of the UPC.

As I mentioned on another forum, there are very few churches where the pastor agrees to the AoF, and does not preach and teach those same articles to his congregation.

If he tried to do that, he would be labeled as "charismatic" and life would be difficult for him in the organization, and he may as well forget about any type of district position - except in rare cases.

So, most men that I know who hold a UPC license will preach the articles of faith to some extent to the members of their congregation.

Therefore, the manual extends past the pulpit and into the pew, in most UPC churches.

This is what I've seen in my experience, anyway.

Thanks for your "opinion", but is there anything more definite?

[Ferd]

Well the actually technical term "upci member" refers only to those men licensed by the organization, as the charter (to the best of my understanding) is a "ministerial fellowship" only.

However, from a top down perspective, there are some who seem to believe they are leaders of a denomination and every member of every church where either the pastor or the pastor and the church are affliliated (an affiliated church cannot have an unaffiliated pastor).

there are also many saints that consider themselves to be "UPCI" and see the teachings of the church as a Southern Baptist would their denomination.

Some wish we would return to our roots and be a fellowship of ministers and others wish we were more a denomination...we seem to be stuck in no mans land somewhere in the middle.

How is that for a straight answer?

Originally Posted by Ferd

Well the actually technical term "upci member" refers only to those men licensed by the organization, as the charter (to the best of my understanding) is a "ministerial fellowship" only.

However, from a top down perspective, there are some who seem to believe they are leaders of a denomination and every member of every church where either the pastor or the pastor and the church are affliliated (an affiliated church cannot have an unaffiliated pastor).

there are also many saints that consider themselves to be "UPCI" and see the teachings of the church as a Southern Baptist would their denomination.

Some wish we would return to our roots and be a fellowship of ministers and others wish we were more a denomination...we seem to be stuck in no mans land somewhere in the middle.

How is that for a straight answer?

Thanks. So could one say that the Manual applies to minister and church member also even if the church is or is not affiliated?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Garfield

Thanks. So could one say that the Manual applies to minister and church member also even if the church is or is not affiliated?

No, the manual is a guide for the fellowship, which is limited to the ministers who are members.

However, most of the members, in agreeing to be in the fellowship, do believe the things that the manual states and therefore in some way or another teach these things to their churches.

The UPCI can take action against a member for not following the Articles of Faith, but the UPCI cannot take any action against a saint in a church who doesnt follow the Articles of faith.(i think this is the definitive you are looking for)

Originally Posted by Ferd

No, the manual is a guide for the fellowship, which is limited to the ministers who are members.

However, most of the members, in agreeing to be in the fellowship, do believe the things that the manual states and therefore in some way or another teach these things to their churches.

The UPCI can take action against a member for not following the Articles of Faith, but the UPCI cannot take any action against a saint in a church who doesnt follow the Articles of faith.(i think this is the definitive you are looking for)

Ahhhaaa! Getting somewhere. Thanks.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Ferd

No, the manual is a guide for the fellowship, which is limited to the ministers who are members.

However, most of the members, in agreeing to be in the fellowship, do believe the things that the manual states and therefore in some way or another teach these things to their churches.

The UPCI can take action against a member for not following the Articles of Faith, but the UPCI cannot take any action against a saint in a church who doesnt follow the Articles of faith.(i think this is the definitive you are looking for)

Actually, the manual also addresses members of the UPCI preachers church.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Actually, the manual also addresses members of the UPCI preachers church.

Really? I'd like to see what you're talking about.........can you post an example? It's been a while since I read the manual, lol........

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Ferd

No, the manual is a guide for the fellowship, which is limited to the ministers who are members.

However, most of the members, in agreeing to be in the fellowship, do believe the things that the manual states and therefore in some way or another teach these things to their churches.

The UPCI can take action against a member for not following the Articles of Faith, but the UPCI cannot take any action against a saint in a church who doesnt follow the Articles of faith.(i think this is the definitive you are looking for)

True............good point.

However, the organization can take action against a minister (member) for the actions of the members of his church. In other words, if a licensed minister pastors a church and allows his members to violate the AoF, he can be called before the district board and his beliefs questioned.