Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Newman]

Wow. Although I have no time to stay and discuss the issue; I would love to see a thread started about the 400+ children in Texas that have been ripped from the lives they knew.

It is ALARMING to me that the state is seeking to terminate all parental rights (from what I have read).

Prosecute crime? Yes. But aren't we also prosecuting the victims of what they were taught all their lives without outside influence to the contrary? Girls who became mothers just past puberty and knew no other way?

And what of the implications of taking all the children from their parents (not just the ones in immediate harm's way) because we don't like what is taught?

It isn't that far removed from the idea that children could be taken from homes that aren't in step with mainstream society, is it? Think on that and hug your child.

So, what's the verdict? Is Texas right or wrong to remove all of the children and seek to terminate the parents' rights to these children?

What would you do? Are you sure? What path is set for the future????

Again, I wish I had time to discuss the issue, but don't. Hopefully, some others will think and post on this. I would love to read what you all have to say.

[Pressing-On]

Newman,
I am hearing that they have counsel looking into their 1st Amendment rights.

[Sherri]

Although I think what went on is deplorable, it is scary that the government can step in and legislate what you can teach children. It may set a precedent that someday down the road we won't appreciate.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Although I think what went on is deplorable, it is scary that the government can step in and legislate what you can teach children. It may set a precedent that someday down the road we won't appreciate.

I don't think that is what the government is trying to do. I think they are trying to keep these children from any further harm. Some of these parents allowed and facilitated the raping of their daughters. The laws of the state of Texas do not change because you are part of a relegious sect. The best way to gauge future behavior is past behavior. If they allow the other children to stay who is to say it won't happen again? And if it does oh the outcry of why didn't the state take those children while they had the chance. Rape and child molestion is a crime in Texas as in other states, it has nothing to do with their relegious freedoms.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I don't think that is what the government is trying to do. I think they are trying to keep these children from any further harm. Some of these parents allowed and facilitated the raping of their daughters. The laws of the state of Texas do not change because you are part of a relegious sect. The best way to gauge future behavior is past behavior. If they allow the other children to stay who is to say it won't happen again? And if it does oh the outcry of why didn't the state take those children while they had the chance. Rape and child molestion is a crime in Texas as in other states, it has nothing to do with their relegious freedoms.

I tend to agree with you, cneasttx. I don't care what religion you are--if you break the law, you should bear the consequences. These people are breaking the laws of the land by practicing polygamy. That's bad enough, IMO. However, the fact that they are abusing children takes it to another level, and I am not all that sympathetic, even though I do understand that these children are suffering trauma right now from being separated from their parents and "normal" home life.

Norman, would you have the same worries about children who were brought up in a community that used them for child pornography? I would think they ought to be removed from that situation, regardless of whether the child understands that they are being abused.

We're not talking about people doing something because the Bible commands them to do it (marry multiple wives and very young girls). We're talking about people practicing a preference they feel is allowed by scripture and breaking laws and abusing children in the process. That does not fall in line with something that should be defended as religious freedom.

[The Mrs]

My first reaction to seeing this was similar to Newmans...I think. It was horrifying to think of the situation, the torment these children went through, and worse, the torment they will be going through by being exposed to something different than what they were taught all their lives. (On a much smaller scale, I feel I can relate to them a bit because of my past, and sitting under a pastor with cult-like tendencies. I can relate to their fears.) My heart just ached for them.

And at the same time, the thought lurking deep in my brain: what kind of precedence will this set for ALL religious communities? It certainly is a troubling thought.

I would have to say though, it seems that our laws stem from religious convictions. We are still considered a 'religious' country. I can't see us coming to a place where we would need to fear anything as long as our religious practices don't go against the laws of the land. And with a country that was founded on religious freedom, I just can't imagine any laws being formed that would violate the Christian foundation.

There just seems to be no easy solution to what has taken place. I know they couldn't just go in and arrest all the men that were breaking the laws because they just didn't have any proof. I sure hope they get that proof!

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

My first reaction to seeing this was similar to Newmans...I think. It was horrifying to think of the situation, the torment these children went through, and worse, the torment they will be going through by being exposed to something different than what they were taught all their lives. (On a much smaller scale, I feel I can relate to them a bit because of my past, and sitting under a pastor with cult-like tendencies. I can relate to their fears.) My heart just ached for them.

And at the same time, the thought lurking deep in my brain: what kind of precedence will this set for ALL religious communities? It certainly is a troubling thought.

I would have to say though, it seems that our laws stem from religious convictions. We are still considered a 'religious' country. I can't see us coming to a place where we would need to fear anything as long as our religious practices don't go against the laws of the land. And with a country that was founded on religious freedom, I just can't imagine any laws being formed that would violate the Christian foundation.

There just seems to be no easy solution to what has taken place. I know they couldn't just go in and arrest all the men that were breaking the laws because they just didn't have any proof. I sure hope they get that proof!

I think that is what took so long for the state to act. Finding a way to save the children and have enough evidence to arrest and prosecute the men. But it is not about relegious practices or biblical principles at all, it is about (property, the children) being molested and raped and inpregnated to propagate their polygamy practices. And if left to continue somewhere down the line incest is going to play a part in this also. And I think this will set some precedents that will cause real relegious and parental rights to be violated as well.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

My first reaction to seeing this was similar to Newmans...I think. It was horrifying to think of the situation, the torment these children went through, and worse, the torment they will be going through by being exposed to something different than what they were taught all their lives. (On a much smaller scale, I feel I can relate to them a bit because of my past, and sitting under a pastor with cult-like tendencies. I can relate to their fears.) My heart just ached for them.

And at the same time, the thought lurking deep in my brain: what kind of precedence will this set for ALL religious communities? It certainly is a troubling thought.

I would have to say though, it seems that our laws stem from religious convictions. We are still considered a 'religious' country. I can't see us coming to a place where we would need to fear anything as long as our religious practices don't go against the laws of the land. And with a country that was founded on religious freedom, I just can't imagine any laws being formed that would violate the Christian foundation.

There just seems to be no easy solution to what has taken place. I know they couldn't just go in and arrest all the men that were breaking the laws because they just didn't have any proof. I sure hope they get that proof!

The sad part about the bolded - we are quickly moving away from being a Chrisitan nation. More and more of our "Christian" values are being stripped away because of "political correctness."

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Although I think what went on is deplorable, it is scary that the government can step in and legislate what you can teach children. It may set a precedent that someday down the road we won't appreciate.

And... assuming any major portion of it is true.

I haven't followed this story enough but this whole thing reeks of Waco to me.

The accusations railed against the Davidians were a mix of lies, half truths and warmed over issues falsely brought against them in the past for which they had already been cleared.

I just have a huge amount of distrust that I am hearing the truth on issues like this.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

And... assuming any major portion of it is true.

I haven't followed this story enough but this whole thing reeks of Waco to me.

The accusations railed against the Davidians were a mix of lies, half truths and warmed over issues falsely brought against them in the past for which they had already been cleared.

I just have a huge amount of distrust that I am hearing the truth on issues like this.

Waco was a case of the Feds going too far; though of course when you're on the receiving end I guess it doesn't matter who's dishing it out.

On thing about the Branch Davidians- they had a penchant for violence. They immediately opened fire on Federal agents serving a warrant. They then spread kerosene around the wooden structures of their "compound" to ensure a firery demise when the Fed inevitably attacked.

The nice Pentecostal looking FLDS folks seem to be more pacific. You know if the sheriff had even found hunting rifles, that they would have been paraded in front of the media. Instead these folks seem to have lived rather meek and quiet lives. Comparisions to Waco don't seem to fit - except the part about the government's role.