John 8:23-27
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
At a simple glance, "...they understood not that he spoke to them of the Father" may look like it is in agreement with the verse that reads "...if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
And, most "Oneness" believers that I have spoken with believe this [mis]interpretation.
Now, I am not a scholar, but I read, and had to re-read it again. I don't believe that our interpretation is correct. It now appears to me that the verse "...they understood not that he spake to them of the Father" is an explanation of the previous verse that reads "...he that sent me is true..." and "...I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him..."
Thus, the hearers of the words of Jesus did not understand that the "...he that sent me..." and "...those things wich I have heard of him..."
The "he" and the "him" that Jesus was speaking of is the Father.
That's my conclusion... I prolly lost you, and I know I never had some of you to begin with.
At a simple glance, "...they understood not that he spoke to them of the Father" may look like it is in agreement with the verse that reads "...if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
And, most "Oneness" believers that I have spoken with believe this [mis]interpretation.
Now, I am not a scholar, but I read, and had to re-read it again. I don't believe that our interpretation is correct. It now appears to me that the verse "...they understood not that he spake to them of the Father" is an explanation of the previous verse that reads "...he that sent me is true..." and "...I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him..."
Thus, the hearers of the words of Jesus did not understand that the "...he that sent me..." and "...those things wich I have heard of him..."
The "he" and the "him" that Jesus was speaking of is the Father.
That's my conclusion... I prolly lost you, and I know I never had some of you to begin with.
Blessings
You are correct, this is not the OP silver bullet at all. They were to die in their sins without entering into the life of God, unless they believed that Jesus was the One that the Hebrew scriptures taught would come, simply the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world. He spoke of the Father, as the One whose words He spoke, the One whom had sent Him.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
You are correct, this is not the OP silver bullet at all. They were to die in their sins without entering into the life of God, unless they believed that Jesus was the One that the Hebrew scriptures taught would come, simply the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world. He spoke of the Father, as the One whose words He spoke, the One whom had sent Him.
Right. That's how I see it. There are many other OP nuggets that appear to be gold. As I have examined them, I find that they are nothing more than Pyrite.
I am almost scared.
Right. That's how I see it. There are many other OP nuggets that appear to be gold. As I have examined them, I find that they are nothing more than Pyrite.
I am almost scared.
Don't be afraid, just walk in all the God reveals to you. If you ask for bread He will not give you a stone, if you ask for an egg He will not give a scorpion. He is faithful, He will not fail.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
You are correct, this is not the OP silver bullet at all. They were to die in their sins without entering into the life of God, unless they believed that Jesus was the One that the Hebrew scriptures taught would come, simply the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world. He spoke of the Father, as the One whose words He spoke, the One whom had sent Him.
To long have people who believe "all trinitarians are lost" abused this scripture.
True, IF you don't believe that He is the Savior you will not inherit eternal life.
But to say you have to understand the Godhead in ALL the ways we oneness try to explain it or be damned, is beyond belief.
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God has lavished his love upon me.
I have noticed that there are several paradoxical situations spoken of when Jesus was on earth. It's difficult to explain even when one completely understands.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
At a simple glance, "...they understood not that he spoke to them of the Father" may look like it is in agreement with the verse that reads "...if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
And, most "Oneness" believers that I have spoken with believe this [mis]interpretation.
Now, I am not a scholar, but I read, and had to re-read it again. I don't believe that our interpretation is correct. It now appears to me that the verse "...they understood not that he spake to them of the Father" is an explanation of the previous verse that reads "...he that sent me is true..." and "...I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him..."
Thus, the hearers of the words of Jesus did not understand that the "...he that sent me..." and "...those things wich I have heard of him..."
The "he" and the "him" that Jesus was speaking of is the Father.
That's my conclusion... I prolly lost you, and I know I never had some of you to begin with.
Blessings
Maybe, however the question was "who are you" and Jesus said "even the same that I said to you in the beginning"...which is what?
Later on Jesus says "Before Abraham was I AM"
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
"Unless you believe I am the One the Father has sent you will die in your sins..."
What I have encountered before among OP's was a tendency to only quote a part of the passage - "Unless you believe I am He..." When pressed they always seemed to agree on the interpretation I gave above (and that you give).
Jesus was always conscious of "Another," the One Who had sent Him. This does not necessarily lead to a full blown Trinitarian (Binitarian) doctrine. The function of the "Other" and His relationship with Christ in eternity past is more complex than the human forms of "You" and "Me."
"Unless you believe I am the One the Father has sent you will die in your sins..."
What I have encountered before among OP's was a tendency to only quote a part of the passage - "Unless you believe I am He..." When pressed they always seemed to agree on the interpretation I gave above (and that you give).
Jesus was always conscious of "Another," the One Who had sent Him. This does not necessarily lead to a full blown Trinitarian (Binitarian) doctrine. T he function of the "Other" and His relationship whit Christ in eternity past is more complex than the human forms of "You" and "Me."
I agree. This in no way supports a God of three persons.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Hybrid Mode
