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10-26-2023, 11:35 AM
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This is still that!
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 9,561
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Random Questions Thread
Random questions:
Is the prophetic ministry of Ephesians 4:11
the same as the ability to prophesy in 1 Corinthians 12:10?
Is humility the opposite of pride?
Can pride be overcome by esteeming others as better than yourself
Preferring and serving others?
Or is pride best overcome through prayer and fasting?
__________________
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
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10-27-2023, 11:40 AM
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This is still that!
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 9,561
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Re: Random Questions Thread
I need help with a question about modesty when dealing with people who will only accept chapter and verse.
Using only scripture, please prove that showing cleavage is immodest.
__________________
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
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10-27-2023, 01:07 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,184
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
I need help with a question about modesty when dealing with people who will only accept chapter and verse.
Using only scripture, please prove that showing cleavage is immodest.
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What is modesty according to God?
[ Gen 3:21 NKJV] 21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
H3801 - kutōneṯ:
Gesenius Lexicon: generally with sleeves, coming down to the knees, rarely to the ankles.
BDB Lexicon: tunic with long skirts and sleeves.
[ Isa 47:2-3 NKJV] 2 Take the millstones and grind meal. Remove your veil, Take off the skirt, Uncover the thigh, Pass through the rivers. 3 Your nakedness shall be uncovered, Yes, your shame will be seen; I will take vengeance, And I will not arbitrate with a man."
[ Exo 28:42 NKJV] 42 "And you shall make for them linen trousers to cover their nakedness; they shall reach from the waist to the thighs.
It is obvious that for God, showing your thigh is showing your nakedness, which is shameful in Bible standards. This is applicable for man and woman. God didn't make tunics only for Eve. The passage in Isa talks about a woman, and the passage in Ex is about a priest (a man).
__________________
"The entirety of Your word is truth" (Ps 119:160)
Last edited by coksiw; 10-27-2023 at 01:11 PM.
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10-27-2023, 06:20 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,622
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw
What is modesty according to God?
[ Gen 3:21 NKJV] 21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
H3801 - kutōneṯ:
Gesenius Lexicon: generally with sleeves, coming down to the knees, rarely to the ankles.
BDB Lexicon: tunic with long skirts and sleeves.
[ Isa 47:2-3 NKJV] 2 Take the millstones and grind meal. Remove your veil, Take off the skirt, Uncover the thigh, Pass through the rivers. 3 Your nakedness shall be uncovered, Yes, your shame will be seen; I will take vengeance, And I will not arbitrate with a man."
[ Exo 28:42 NKJV] 42 "And you shall make for them linen trousers to cover their nakedness; they shall reach from the waist to the thighs.
It is obvious that for God, showing your thigh is showing your nakedness, which is shameful in Bible standards. This is applicable for man and woman. God didn't make tunics only for Eve. The passage in Isa talks about a woman, and the passage in Ex is about a priest (a man).
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I think she meant a different cleavage?
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10-27-2023, 07:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,184
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
I think she meant a different cleavage?
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Lol. For whatever reason I was thinking about skirts with slits.
__________________
"The entirety of Your word is truth" (Ps 119:160)
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10-27-2023, 07:33 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,622
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by coksiw
Lol. For whatever reason I was thinking about skirts with slits.
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At first I was like "Why is he going on about legs?". So anyway I googled "What does the Bible say about cleavage". And I discovered that outside of the US "cleavage" is often understood to refer to showing the distinction between legs (as in "a divided garment" like either pants or a skirt/dress with a split in it).
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11-23-2023, 01:05 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,477
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
I need help with a question about modesty when dealing with people who will only accept chapter and verse.
Using only scripture, please prove that showing cleavage is immodest.
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1 Timothy 2:9 (ESV),
Quote:
9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire
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See the Greek word for "apparel":
καταστολῇ - katastolē
This word is hapax legomena to 1 Timothy 2:9, but it's not hard to translate. It means a garment let down, i.e. a dress.
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2689.htm
It derives from: καταστέλλω - katastelló, which means "to put or keep down one who is roused or incensed, to repress, restrain, appease, quiet", at least according to Thayer.
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2687.htm
And since, cleavage can clearly arouse sexual lust, and perhaps incense others, it would seem that a modest dress, that properly covers the bosom is in order.
Furthermore, Paul wrote that such a dress should be modest and respectable.
Modest is from the Greek word αἰδοῦς - aidous, a compound from the Greek negative particle and οἶδα - eidó, meaning to see with the eyes. As such, modest here means something like shame, that is, some thing or part of the body that a woman ought to be ashamed of, if seen by others. The idea of uncovering someone's nakedness comes to mind.
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/127.htm
Respectable is from the Greek word κοσμίῳ - kosmiō, meaning well ordered, decorous, good behavior, etc.
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2887.htm
Things that are considered respectable, i.e. well-ordered, decorous, and etc. are subjective and a matter of opinion, but and since the concept here is augmented by the ideas of shame and the type of garment described, it seems pretty clear that cleavage bearing clothing wouldn't be considered respectable by almost any definition of the word.
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10-27-2023, 12:57 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,184
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
Random questions:
Is the prophetic ministry of Ephesians 4:11
the same as the ability to prophesy in 1 Corinthians 12:10?
Is humility the opposite of pride?
Can pride be overcome by esteeming others as better than yourself
Preferring and serving others?
Or is pride best overcome through prayer and fasting?
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The Psalmists prayed that God helped them to walk in His ways (e.g. Psalm 119). Jesus used the Word when fighting temptation saying "It is written" and quoting it.
I think if you force yourself to practice something, it may be a good sincere attempt to bring fruit of repentance. It could also be useless because the heart is not truly repented (e.g., Prov 23:6-7)
__________________
"The entirety of Your word is truth" (Ps 119:160)
Last edited by coksiw; 10-27-2023 at 01:12 PM.
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10-27-2023, 06:31 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,622
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah
Random questions:
Is the prophetic ministry of Ephesians 4:11
the same as the ability to prophesy in 1 Corinthians 12:10?
Is humility the opposite of pride?
Can pride be overcome by esteeming others as better than yourself
Preferring and serving others?
Or is pride best overcome through prayer and fasting?
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Well, a prophet must be able to prophesy, right? So although a person may prophesy at some specific time, a prophet would be one whose primary gift and function in the assembly is prophesying.
It seems humility is a contrary to pride, as would be meekness, bashfulness, or in some circumstances just being quiet. (Assuming pride is meant in the negative sense of exalting oneself etc).
Pride, considered as a sin or moral defect, is overcome by repentance. A tendency to pride or in otherwise a weakness in the face of temptation to be prideful would be overcome by prayer (with fasting if necessary) and a moral determination or choice to not be prideful, like basically any other temptation. By cooperating with the Spirit one's attitude and thought processes are changed to conform to God's.
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10-27-2023, 07:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North of the Rio Grande
Posts: 2,793
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Re: Random Questions Thread
Lol!
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WHO IS BREXIT AND IS HE A TRINITARIAN?- James LeDeay 10/30/16
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