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Old 06-06-2007, 10:23 AM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Question Appearance of inconsistency

There have been a couple threads here lately that have highlighted the apparent inconsistency in Pentecost that we preach against many of the addictive and damaging influences of the world, but we seldom preach or teach on gluttony.

That got me to thinking . . . . Fundamentalist Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. The bible support for this stance seems fairly plain to me.

Why don't Apostolics teach on this topic?


Support for a stance against BC:

God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Children are to be considered blessings from God is a consistent thematic element in the bible.
Many popular forms of BC are chemical abortifacents, i.e. they cause zygotes and embryos to be killed.

mis-applied support for a stance against BC:

The Lord slew Onan because he did not want to raise up children for his brother by impregnating his brother's wife, so he "spilled his seed on the ground." I believe it's fairly clear that Onan was slain for disobedience in general, not for what he specifically did.


What is the biblical support for the use of birth control?

Is it done via the principle of stewardship?

Or to avoid being "worse than an infidel?" (I Timothy 5:8) due to the perception that children cost so much money that more than two or three will induce deprivating financial hardship?

And yes, I'm well aware what curiosity did for the cat . . .
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2007, 10:28 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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I for one do not believe Planned Parenthood should be setting the model for the Apostolic Church.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:09 AM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I for one do not believe Planned Parenthood should be setting the model for the Apostolic Church.
And that means??
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:07 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Let old Noah keep at it, then!
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:30 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
There have been a couple threads here lately that have highlighted the apparent inconsistency in Pentecost that we preach against many of the addictive and damaging influences of the world, but we seldom preach or teach on gluttony.

That got me to thinking . . . . Fundamentalist Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. The bible support for this stance seems fairly plain to me.

Why don't Apostolics teach on this topic?


Support for a stance against BC:

God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Children are to be considered blessings from God is a consistent thematic element in the bible.
Many popular forms of BC are chemical abortifacents, i.e. they cause zygotes and embryos to be killed.

mis-applied support for a stance against BC:

The Lord slew Onan because he did not want to raise up children for his brother by impregnating his brother's wife, so he "spilled his seed on the ground." I believe it's fairly clear that Onan was slain for disobedience in general, not for what he specifically did.


What is the biblical support for the use of birth control?

Is it done via the principle of stewardship?

Or to avoid being "worse than an infidel?" (I Timothy 5:8) due to the perception that children cost so much money that more than two or three will induce deprivating financial hardship?

And yes, I'm well aware what curiosity did for the cat . . .
Noah had three sons. There is no mention of him having other children or daughters.

The command to re-populate the earth wasn't a universal one that included us today.

I don't believe people should have children if they can't afford them. I have known people who think they should have as many children as they can but are on welfare. That's wrong.

There is no Biblical support nor opposition to birth control.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:33 PM
Sheltiedad
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I consider the population project a success already... all I have to do is go to the grocery store or anywhere else for that matter and I see the results. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why other ethnicities are slowly becoming the majority population though, because of their Catholic, etc. roots...

Adding... I believe that for someone on welfare to have even one child is irresponsible.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:43 PM
Carpenter Carpenter is offline
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:10 AM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheltiedad View Post
I consider the population project a success already... all I have to do is go to the grocery store or anywhere else for that matter and I see the results. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why other ethnicities are slowly becoming the majority population though, because of their Catholic, etc. roots...

Adding... I believe that for someone on welfare to have even one child is irresponsible.
That's why they are supposed to get married first! (Most on welfare are single mothers!)
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:15 AM
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ILG ILG is offline
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My view on this subject is that Christian families should, I think, have as many children as possible. By this, I don't mean that birth control is a sin. I don't mean this in a legalistic way. But, having children I think has many benefits. American society has taught too many people that children are a curse rather than a blessing, as the Bible teaches.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:39 AM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG View Post
My view on this subject is that Christian families should, I think, have as many children as possible. By this, I don't mean that birth control is a sin. I don't mean this in a legalistic way. But, having children I think has many benefits. American society has taught too many people that children are a curse rather than a blessing, as the Bible teaches.
Nicely done.

I'll try to sum up my opinions on the topic now:

1) I believe all Christians should receive teaching that enables them to re-evaluate the societal norms they have accepted since childhood.

2) I believe that the advent of the birth control pill brought the dawn of a new era of human sexuality that has transformed society's views of sex, procreation, abortion, and children. Although perhaps intended to help families that struggled financially due to the size of their family, the pill has served much more as license for promiscuity and adultery, and to accelerate the spread of disease. (see #1)

3) I believe that the new prevailing attitude that children are a burden to be avoided in most circumstances is wrong. What's surprising is the strength of this attitude in today's young women. Christians should be taught that children are a blessing from God, and that they are part of God's plan for our training and perfecting as saints. (see #1)

4) I believe abortion is murder, and the use of abortifacent forms of birth control are tantamount to manslaughter. I believe Christians should be taught how the various forms of birth control actually work to prevent pregnancy.

5) I believe that the decision to employ preventative forms of birth control is ultimately one of faith. There are strong arguments for the invocation of the principle of stewardship here, but I will once again refer back to #1, above, and suggest that Christians should re-evaluate how their culture has influenced their pre-conceived notions about the costs of raising children, the priority they place upon their standard of living, and what things are worthy of sacrifice as the scales of life are balanced.

6) It is not a sin to plan the size of your family, or to choose sterilization for medical reasons.

7) In my opinion, people who limit the size of their family solely for financial or lifestyle reasons are depriving themselves of God's blessings. My father owns the cattle on 1000 hills. When Solomon was old, he taught that he had never seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.


I have five children. My wife and I have made our slow journey of incremental learning and faith together. We used the pill for the first three years we were married. Sometimes we have employed preventive measures between children, and sometimes we haven't. I first learned of the abortifacent nature of the pill, and of the quiver-full movement, at her urging. I almost got a vasectomey several years ago. I'm so glad I didn't!

We have put our trust in HIM, yet we understand that many are not ready to follow in our footsteps, as it took us a long time to arrive where we are.

Because of the long and arduous path we took to arrive at our place of faith, I can partly understand why this topic is avoided in Apostolic churches. But on the other hand . . . our movement has many, many fine people, more full of faith than I, and many, many brave preachers who confront other unpopular topics in the pulpit. I think people should be informed. I grieve for the tiny unborn ones that my wife and I unknowingly chemically aborted. I wonder what sort of children they might have been, what they would have looked like, how old they would be now.

I value how those early years without children allowed us to get to know each other more fully, and develop and strengthen our marriage and teamwork, but I regret the methods by which we acquired them.

God bless you all.
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