3 in 1 - I'M MORE ONENESS THAN YOU ARE ...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

He who?

You gave a statement that did not answer any questions. Also this post from the beginning was in oppostion to one who has yet to post here. When it was about as bad as could be with 8 or 9 direct questions you dodged, you then post more quotes as if you expect either a fight or response.

BOOM ... please go to this thread to see the genesis of this thread .. Felicity will vouch that I supported what TB said 100 % ... PM TB if you like ... Sam knows I have no qualms about alternate views on Oneness.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sam

In today's terminology, we usually think of a person as an individual.
Has the term person always meant that?

The term Person? Yes pretty much. The origin of the term Person? No. It comes from Persona which means an actor in a play or a mask. But Theologically speaking Trinitarians and OPs use the term to mean the hypostasis or the individual ego...the self..It certainly helps to have a theological discussion with others if we can all agree on terms

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

BOOM ... please go to this thread to see the genesis of this thread .. Felicity will vouch that I supported what TB said 100 % ... PM TB if you like ... Sam knows I have no qualms about alternate views on Oneness.

My apology then.

I read only THIS thread.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Felicity

It can have a broader meaning than that. Ever hear tell of the word "persona"?

Yes...see my other post. But we are not talking about persona. We are talking about the english word person and how it is used especially theologically. As I said, it makes things a lot easier when we can agree on terms and the word person theologically has been used for many years to mean the individual self

[SDG]

I'm still more Oneness than all of y'all!!!!

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes...see my other post. But we are not talking about persona. We are talking about the english word person and how it is used especially theologically. As I said, it makes things a lot easier when we can agree on terms and the word person theologically has been used for many years to mean the individual self

I was just making a point........ a valid one but if using that term throws you then it's okay. We'll just revert back to the standard.

Which is what by the way?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I was just making a point........ a valid one but if using that term throws you then it's okay. We'll just revert back to the standard.

Which is what by the way?

I understood your point and thus I responded to it. It does not throw me. The point I am making is if we don't all speak the same langauge how can we understand each other? If some OP says "I believe in three persons" how am I supposed to know what he means if we are not in agreement?

The Standard, as I already stated is theologically for many years the term person has come to mean the hypostasis...the individual ego or self.

[SDG]

Felicity and Praxeas ... what say ye of Sola Gratias view of persons

Okay Bro the term persons usually fowls us up (us – meaning “oneness Pentecostals”) the term persons is better defined and really contemporized by modern Trinitarians like the Assemblies of God for instance, as “aspects” – many AG ministers refer to the distinctions: Father, Son and Holy Ghost as “aspects” in lieu of the traditional “persons”… Although they are okay with “persons” – because they understand the meaning of the tern


The term “persons” was used instead of manifestations to distinct the GODHEAD(Father, Son and Holy Ghost) from other manifestations such as the “Burning Bush” – because they felt these where more like aspects and the make up of GOD, and therefore these distinctions, or aspects of GOD, deserved more credence than the burning bush or other such “manifestations” In this manner “persons” was finally decided upon although not used in original Trinitarian language! Its actually not a bad word though, if you understand the purpose of the word, and the intention of it… Instead of my words let me quote a professor from Dallas Theological Seminary – J Hampton Keathley


Let me supply a reference: From a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary
Trinity (Triunity) of God
by
J. Hampton Keathley III

Person: In speaking of the Triunity, the term “person” is not used in same way it is in ordinary usage in which it means an identity completely distinct from other persons. Actually the word persons tends to detract from the unity of the Trinity. According to the teaching of Scripture, the three Persons are inseparable, interdependent, and eternally united in one Divine Being.

It is evident that the word “person” is not ideal for the purpose. Orthodox writers have struggled over this term. Some have opted for the term subsistence (the mode or quality of existence), hence, “God has three substances.” Most have continued to use persons because we have not been able to find a better term. “The word substance speaks of God’s essential nature or being and subsistence describes His mode or quality of existence.”


In this better explained definition of “persons”– I really don’t see the doctrinal conflict Here is why – we have to notice the distinctions of GOD for instance

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

See here that the Son will subject Himself to the Father – these are distinctive roles – manifestations “persons” in GOD - if we fail to recognize them – just to preserve our view – we do ourselves a dis-service – think of another portion where divinity divided performed distinct functions


(Luk 3:21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
(Luk 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Here we see GOD acting in three persons – by that I mean they are totally separate, and distinct in their presentation – revealing HIMSELF to humanity

(Luk 23:34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Here we again see JESUS – who is GOD – pray to His Father – “forgive them” Listen to me from the moment of HIS birth to this day JESUS was always GOD! Even on the cross it was JESUS! The distinction of persons existed - even though we don’t completely understand it. This is not classic trinitarianism – but instead it simply notes the distinctions of the roles found in the one true GOD – roles, manifestations “persons”

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes...see my other post. But we are not talking about persona. We are talking about the english word person and how it is used especially theologically. As I said, it makes things a lot easier when we can agree on terms and the word person theologically has been used for many years to mean the individual self

I'm not trying to argue. But, didn't our word "person" used to mean "persona" or have the same meaning as the word "persona" and isn't that what Trinitarians mean when they use the word "person" in their creed?

Don't trinitarians (and I guess it's impossible to lump all trinitarians together like it would be impossible to lump all oneness together) but anyway, don't most trinitarians believe:
1. The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the holy Ghost is Lord but there is only one Lord.

2. Jesus lives in our heart, the Holy Spirit lives in our heart, the Spirit of God lives in our heart, the Spirit of the Father lives in our heart, but only one Spirit lives in our heart.

3. Jesus is the visible manifestation of God and the only way we will see God is in the person of Jesus Christ.

[Felicity]

I've heard the "persons" angle discussed before and I think it has some merit myself.

But then I'm not trinitarianoid. Hehe. I'm secure in my understanding of the Godhead. My understanding is basic ....... I'm not a theologian or a Godhead whiz ....... but nothing can sway me from my distinctive of being a Oneness adherent.

2Ti 1:12 ..... nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.