Apostolic annointing

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. Please demonstrate this claim.

2. Please demonstrate how you know who or how many are 'receiving the Holy Spirit' in either camp.

3. Please demonstrate that it is impossible for anyone to receive something other than the Holy Spirit while thinking it is indeed the Holy Spirit.

Start here: http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/g...denominations/

and here: http://www.pewforum.org/2006/10/05/p...resource-page/

For a more specific target, that is, the AoG, see here: http://www.charismanews.com/world/50...-growth-trends

and for Oneness, see here:

https://www.amazon.com/Our-God-One-T.../dp/1888251204

Roughly half a billion Pentecostals and Charismatics in the world today, and Talmadge French estimated that of that number, only about 30M were Oneness.

This worldwide growth of Pentecostals and Charismatics has been happening for the last century or so. Having this many people claim a Pentecostal or Charismatic identity, which, as a movement or subgroup of Christianity proper, is chiefly recognized for its belief that when one receives the Holy Spirit, they speak in tongues, indicates that some very large number self-identify this way because they have themselves spoken in tongues as they received the Holy Spirit.

Now, if we subtract French's estimates from the total number, we still have about 500,000,000 people in the world today claiming a Pentecostal or Charismatic heritage.

But, if even less than half of these 500M have actually received the Holy Spirit and spoken in tongues, that's still over 200M more than those in the Oneness camp.

If even only 1/5 have done so, that' still way over the number of Oneness who have, by about 70M.

If merely a tithe have done so, that's still 20M more.

I suppose, if one were so inclined, one could conclude that all the research done by French and the Pew Forum folks is faulty beyond hope, and therefore, these numbers can be rejected out of hand.

And as far as the impossibility of proving one thing or the other, if you're looking for some ace in the hole to prove your point, then more power to you. Play your card.

But before you do, remember the creator of this thread admitted she received the Holy Spirit in a Trinitarian church. Didn't you say the same about yourself? My memory is a little foggy (I think you addressed it in one of Originalist's threads about Jimmy Swaggart a few months back. Not sure, though).

And speaking of Originalist, he was a licensed member of the AoG, and received the Holy Spirit there. I'm sure he can assure you that the people in the AoG, to pick a group, are by and large receiving the genuine article.

Maybe navygoat can chime in here, if even comes around anymore.

My cousin received the Holy Spirit in an AoG church. So did my mother in law, and my wife, when she was five, and going with her mom to an AoG Sunday school. They've all converted to Oneness since then, and none of them have needed to exchange what they had already received.

Are there charlatans and fakers out there? Of course, in every movement, even among Oneness. Remember Borat, or the so-called Cracker Barrel revival video with the old guy getting in on the prayer action, spazzing out and doing stuff either in his flesh or worse?

Here it is in case you haven't seen it before (skip to the 2:00 minute mark):

[Amanah]

like I said, I received the HG in an AOG church, and sometimes I visit my local AOG church, there is always a sweet presence of the Lord, and the gifts of the spirit are in operation.

God gives us his Spirit to lead and guide us into more truth, he pours out his Spirit on all flesh. I think that truth is Baptism in Jesus name. And if baptism in Jesus name does bring remission of sins, then wouldn't it make sense that there would be a freer and deeper quality of God's presence?

You love your girlfriend, but once you are married there is a deeper relationship and intimacy.

I think there is a witness in the spirit in Jesus name churches.

you can say this is subjective and it is, Christianity is a subjective experience. Statistics are also highly subjective.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I am not Oneness, either, and I feel the same way, but for different reasons.

HOLD. THE. PHONE.

You are NOT Oneness? Why are you an Administrator on a Oneness forum? And as such, why are you challenging a Oneness person's experience?

"Apostolic" as defined by AFF

Apostolic doctrines have been defined as the following:

There is one person of God revealing Himself as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form, or "God manifested in the flesh."
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
The Holy Ghost baptism is for Christians today and may be received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

The Ten Commandments of the AFF:

1. Don't argue about basic Apostolic doctrines anywhere except The Debate Room.

[Sister Alvear]

wow...not oneness?

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

For the record I am not a Trinitarian. I never have been, and I don't think I ever will be, if I can guess at my own future. But I am quite sympathetic to the Trinitarian position, and I have great compassion for and toward people who sincerely believe God to be Tri-une.

I am not Oneness, either, and I feel the same way, but for different reasons.

If you're not Trinitarian and you're not Oneness, may I ask what you believe regarding the Godhead?

[Sister Alvear]

twoness? Father and Son?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Start here: http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/g...denominations/

and here: http://www.pewforum.org/2006/10/05/p...resource-page/

For a more specific target, that is, the AoG, see here: http://www.charismanews.com/world/50...-growth-trends

and for Oneness, see here:

https://www.amazon.com/Our-God-One-T.../dp/1888251204

Roughly half a billion Pentecostals and Charismatics in the world today, and Talmadge French estimated that of that number, only about 30M were Oneness.

This worldwide growth of Pentecostals and Charismatics has been happening for the last century or so. Having this many people claim a Pentecostal or Charismatic identity, which, as a movement or subgroup of Christianity proper, is chiefly recognized for its belief that when one receives the Holy Spirit, they speak in tongues, indicates that some very large number self-identify this way because they have themselves spoken in tongues as they received the Holy Spirit.

Now, if we subtract French's estimates from the total number, we still have about 500,000,000 people in the world today claiming a Pentecostal or Charismatic heritage.

But, if even less than half of these 500M have actually received the Holy Spirit and spoken in tongues, that's still over 200M more than those in the Oneness camp.

If even only 1/5 have done so, that' still way over the number of Oneness who have, by about 70M.

If merely a tithe have done so, that's still 20M more.

I suppose, if one were so inclined, one could conclude that all the research done by French and the Pew Forum folks is faulty beyond hope, and therefore, these numbers can be rejected out of hand.

And as far as the impossibility of proving one thing or the other, if you're looking for some ace in the hole to prove your point, then more power to you. Play your card.

But before you do, remember the creator of this thread admitted she received the Holy Spirit in a Trinitarian church. Didn't you say the same about yourself? My memory is a little foggy (I think you addressed it in one of Originalist's threads about Jimmy Swaggart a few months back. Not sure, though).

And speaking of Originalist, he was a licensed member of the AoG, and received the Holy Spirit there. I'm sure he can assure you that the people in the AoG, to pick a group, are by and large receiving the genuine article.

Maybe navygoat can chime in here, if even comes around anymore.

My cousin received the Holy Spirit in an AoG church. So did my mother in law, and my wife, when she was five, and going with her mom to an AoG Sunday school. They've all converted to Oneness since then, and none of them have needed to exchange what they had already received.

Are there charlatans and fakers out there? Of course, in every movement, even among Oneness. Remember Borat, or the so-called Cracker Barrel revival video with the old guy getting in on the prayer action, spazzing out and doing stuff either in his flesh or worse?

Here it is in case you haven't seen it before (skip to the 2:00 minute mark):

So, yes, some receive "another spirit" and believe in "another Jesus", and are practicing "another gospel". But I don't think we should lump every single Trinitarian who has received the Holy Spirit in with that number. I would offer that it's a relatively small number, more among the lunatic fringe...

Your links do not address "how many receive the Holy Spirit", thus my questions remain unanswered.

[Jito463]

If I may be so bold, why is a non-Oneness individual an admin on a Oneness Apostolic forum?

[wire2john]

An individual can receive the Holy Ghost in their home, having only read about it in the Bible. But when someone claims to have the Holy Ghost in them while also rejecting Acts 2:38, I am dubious that their experience is genuine.

[CC1]

If we are talking annointing I think it is important to remind folks that the amount of annointing is in direct proportion to how loud the preacher yells and gesticulates. "Holy Breath" (holding the microphone close to your mouth and making inhaling and exhaling noises as you scream) is a particular indicator of the amount of annointing. Last but not least annointing can be quantified by the preachers ability to throw out red meat catch phrases that bring old time Oneness Pentecostal crowds to their feet screaming and waving their hands. For example "My God ain't no three gods!" or declaring that all of those "so called Spirit filled" folks who are not Oneness and who have not been baptized in Jesus name just have a "counterfeit" holy spirit not the REAL Holy Spirit!

I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page here!

(Now I just sit back to wait for the usual one or two who will post that I must be incredibly bitter, yada, yada, yada. That I have a hatred of Pentecost, yada, yada, yada. All is untrue of course. I just try to make some humorous observations based on my many decades in and then still around old time Pentecost. When I was 16 years old I thought Marvin Hicks was da bomb because he screamed loud and used big words while doing it AND debated those evil trinitarian's and showed them up. I remember at the HIcks-Reynolds debate I attended as a teenager the only thing missing was that they should have sold popcorn and cokes!)