Two questions, This "Revelation", did you come to this truth from a Trinitarian mindset?
If so, which portions of your enlightenment is at odds with classical Trinitarian confession?
not very easy to answer.
Answer to Question 1:
I was a new Christian, less than a year old in the Lord.
I would not say that I was "trinitarian" because I did not really have much "teaching" on the trinity or understanding of what "trinity" was. I had taken a couple of correspondence courses from Moody Bible Institute and in one of them it was taught that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, that these are three persons but one God. That was where the mention of containing the whole ocean in a teacup of water was presented. I was told to just accept it as a fact by faith. I did wonder how three "somethings" or three spirits (one of whom came in flesh) could be one God but "took it by faith" and didn't worry about it. I would not have been able to defend it or refute it if someone asked me about it. So, to answer your first question, I guess if someone asked me if I believed in the trinity, I would say "yes." The concept of the trinity being that Jesus is God, not an angel like the JW's say, and not just a human like the Unitarians say. To me the "trinity" would mean the deity of Jesus but in some unexplainable way.
Answer to Question 2
As far as the second question, I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't think there is any single trinity teaching just like there is no single oneness teaching. Trinitarians disagree among themselves on some things and oneness disagree among themselves on some things.
If "person" is taken to mean "role" or "mask" or "persona" then I can say that God is three persons because I believe that one God plays all three roles (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). Andrew Urshan used the term "triune" and also the term "three-one" God and he is generally considered to be oneness. The PCI Manual had a statement in it that said:
Man is triune, spirit, soul, and body. God is triune, a trinity. Three manifestations of one God, not three eternally distinct persons or Gods, as that is tritheism. A copy of this part of the manual is attached as a pdf file.
Brother Daniel Segraves has the following quote in a blog dated January 20, 2009:
"The word "person" has changed its meaning since the third century when it began to be used in connection with the "threefoldness of God". When we talk about God as a person, we naturally think of God as being one person. But theologians such as Tertullian, writing in the third century, used the word "person" with a different meaning. The word "person" originally derives from the Latin word "persona", meaning an actor's face-mask- and, by extension, the role which he takes in a play.
By stating that there were three persons but only one God, Tertullian was asserting that all three major roles in the great drama of human redemption are played by the one and the same God. The three great roles in this drama are all played by the same actor: God. Each of these roles may reveal God in a somewhat different way, but it is the same God in every case. So when we talk about God as one person, we mean one person in the modern sense of the word, and when we talk about God as three persons, we mean three persons in the ancient sense of the word...Confusing two senses of the word "person" inevitably leads to the idea that God is actually a committee..
I don't mean for this to be evasive and it has become rather rambling. I've tried to answer your questions but I don't know that I have.
Not trying to make it difficult. I would say there are very few Trinitarian Christians who expect to see three individual "persons" in heaven. While they may not be comfortable with the words "mask" or "actors on a stage", it appears many of them have received the "revelation" of the mighty God in Christ as also have we.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Yeah I often wonder about those whom learn it this way., there must be
little 'excitement'. *shrug* maybe more of a, {as someone so succintly descrubed it, "ho-hum" attitude.
I know that in over the last 12yrs since I got the "revelation" I have NEVER
ever felt "ho-hum" about it, it remains 'fresh' as ever., nothing in this world
can ever compare to it!!
FREEDOM, Yeah!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Freedom? Interesting. Why is it so exciting? Would you be that excited about there being three Gods, if there were three Gods?
Still wondering. Freedom? Excitement?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Freedom from things that we felt bound to before, Timmy... though there are arguments that we shouldn't feel free, and there are some that don't feel free. I never was excited about trinity when I was trinitarian. I always had too many questions, and God wasn't a part of my everyday life for a long time. Excitement? I don't know. Trinity doctrine never excited me. Knowing that God sent someone else to die for me kind of scared me a tiny bit. If He'd do THAT to His son, what would He do to me? Realizing, however, that God would make a plan to come to earth robed in flesh to die for me, that made me feel safe and loved, and that was exciting!
Freedom from things that we felt bound to before, Timmy... though there are arguments that we shouldn't feel free, and there are some that don't feel free. I never was excited about trinity when I was trinitarian. I always had too many questions, and God wasn't a part of my everyday life for a long time. Excitement? I don't know. Trinity doctrine never excited me. Knowing that God sent someone else to die for me kind of scared me a tiny bit. If He'd do THAT to His son, what would He do to me? Realizing, however, that God would make a plan to come to earth robed in flesh to die for me, that made me feel safe and loved, and that was exciting!
OK. That makes sense, somewhat. But the Bible does say that God sent His Son. Why is it worded that way, if it really was just Himself that He "sent"?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, and she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Therefore, the spirit of God created the flesh He stepped into, therefore making that flesh His son. But the Spirit of God dwelt in that flesh. God didn't send a second person, but came Himself. That's why the angel said "thou shalt call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins."
Timmy, The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, and she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Therefore, the spirit of God created the flesh He stepped into, therefore making that flesh His son. But the Spirit of God dwelt in that flesh. God didn't send a second person, but came Himself. That's why the angel said "thou shalt call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins."
Oh, I have never (that I can recall) disputed that there is scriptural support for the Oneness view. Just that there isn't scriptural support for Trinitarianism-is-bogus-and-demonic-and-totally-unbiblical view. I've seen posts here saying that nobody could read the Bible and derive the trinity doctrine, that it just isn't there. Is that your view? I see the concept of trinity all over the NT.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Not trying to make it difficult. I would say there are very few Trinitarian Christians who expect to see three individual "persons" in heaven. While they may not be comfortable with the words "mask" or "actors on a stage", it appears many of them have received the "revelation" of the mighty God in Christ as also have we.
There were questions in my mind as to God's threeness and His oneness. I wondered if there was some way to see three individuals in Heaven even if they were spirit beings. I also wondered how three could be omnipresent at the same time. I was a kid (17 years old) and had questions. The way God opened up my understanding put my mind at rest. I still couldn't answer questions about some "difficult" verses but I saw that God was one spirit and Jesus was that one spirit plus flesh.
I had not heard of the statement alleged to have been said by Billy Graham that the only way we can see God is in the person of Jesus Christ. I don't know where to find that quote or what he actually said.
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