Taught by the Holy Ghost?

[Esaias]

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27

Originally Posted by mfblume

I think that's why John said if we have the Spirit we don't need anyone to teach us, because the anointing teaches. In other words, you know what I mean, when someone receives truth it's like they always knew it, but never heard it before. The anointing in us responds to it and confirms it as truth.

This is not what John meant. He was not saying we don't need anyone to teach us in the sense that we can get truth or confirm truth merely by some internal impulse that we think is the Spirit 'confirming' something or 'revealing' something. That is not the context of what John is explaining here. Let's look at this a little closer.

First, the immediate context:

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

John does not say 'thee', but 'you', meaning he is not writing to individuals but to a collective, plural group of people - a church. He has written these things (the things in his epistle) and these things concern 'them that seduce you', that is, false teachers. He then immediately says the anointing you (plural) have abides in you, and you do not need any man to teach you, etc. Therefore, the anointing abides in the church, and teaches the church. It teaches them 'all things', and 'is truth'. And he concludes by saying that as the anointing has taught the congregation, they (the congregation) shall abide in HIM.

From this we see several things. We see that the anointing is the presence and operation of the Holy Ghost. We see that the whole congregation is taught by the Holy Ghost. We see that everyone had already been taught by the Holy Ghost. We see that in the same manner that the Spirit had taught them, they would abide in Him. And all of this is in reference to false teachers who would seduce the congregation into error. The anointing abiding in the church, that teaches the church, would keep the church from the error of those who would seduce the church into error and false doctrine.

The question is, 'How does this work? How does this actually play out?' Exactly HOW does the Spirit teach the church all things, preventing false teachers from leading the church astray into error?

Immediately before John wrote those words we have just read, he wrote this:

1 John 2:24-25 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (25) And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

He is talking about DOCTRINE! What the brethren had heard from the beginning was to abide in them, it was to remain, they were to let it abide in them. That is, they were to hold fast to what they had heard from the beginning. IF they did that, IF the message they had heard from the beginning remained in them, then they would continue, they would remain, they would keep on abiding, in the Son and in the Father. They would remain in Christ! And would therefore receive the promise of eternal life. Notice, the promise of eternal life is connected to REMAINING and ABIDING and CONTINUING in Christ, which is dependent upon the WORD they had heard 'from the beginning' remaining and abiding in them.

Consider what John recorded concerning what Jesus said:

John 15:4-11 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (7) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (8) Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. (9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (11) These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

Abiding in Christ, and having Christ abide is us, requires that we keep His commandments, that we continue in His word, or doctrine. And as John said in his first epistle, if we allow that word or doctrine that we heard from the beginning to abide in us, we shall continue in Christ (and therefore in the Father) and shall have eternal life. The false teachers who would seduce us into error are combatted and defeated by the unction of the Holy Ghost in the church which TEACHES US ALL THINGS so that we can abide in the DOCTRINE of CHRIST, so that we can know THE TRUTH.

At the beginning of John's discourse concerning this subject, we read the following:

1 John 2:3-6 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Again, he is talking about abiding in Christ, which is demonstrated by and conditioned upon keeping His commandments (following His teachings, His doctrine, which was delivered by His apostles in the beginning). So then if we hold fast to the original teachings of the apostles, which are the Doctrine of Christ that He gave them to deliver to us, then the Spirit that we receive and which operates in the church will teach us all things, and we do not need someone to come along with new teaching to 'keep us from error', we simply need to remain and stay with what was originally delivered. This will confute the errors of the seducers and false teachers.

(continued in next post)

[Esaias]

(continued)

Consider this:

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

They were not to believe every spirit, but test them to see if they are from God. How would the spirits be communicating to them? How could they test the messages? They are not to believe every spirit because many false prophets are running around. Spirits communicate via 'prophets'. John is not warning individual Christians about weird internal impulses or suggestions, but he is warning the church about believing anything that is proclaimed or taught in the church, because there are many false prophets going around teaching error!

If the spirits of error seduce the church via people who speak the errors as 'doctrine', then how does the Holy Ghost teach the church? Through those whom God has set in the church to speak His Word!

Prophets, teachers, those who give words of knowledge, those who give words of wisdom, those who give messages in tongues and those who give interpretations of tongues, and those who give revelations, are those whom God uses to speak to the church, to teach the church. In his first epistle to the Corinthians, Paul clearly shows this, and says these giftings are set in the church by the Holy Ghost. This is how the truth is taught in the congregation. It begins with an apostle or evangelist who preaches the Word of God by the Holy Ghost. People hear, believe, and are born again, and gathered into a community of believers (a church). God moves in the church among the members, raising up prophets, teachers, giving revelations, giving doctrine, words of wisdom, etc, to build up the church. All these utterances and teachings that are 'by the Spirit' will be in agreement with the Word of God, and will in fact BE the Word of God! Notice this:


John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (14) He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Ghost will lead and guide the church into 'all truth'. What is truth?

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

God's Word is truth, the Spirit will guide into all truth. Therefore, the Spirit will guide into all the Word. We know that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, therefore Jesus Christ IS the truth, because He is the Word made flesh. The Spirit will guide us into all truth, taking what is Christ's and showing it to us, because the word speaks of Christ, it's all about Christ, because Christ IS the Incarnate Word! So then the Spirit guides us into all the Word.

Again, this is how error is prevented, by the church having the Spirit operating in their midst through anointed utterance leading the believers into the Word of God, to know the Truth, to experience the Truth, causing us to abide in Christ and have eternal life. And this is all about 'that which ye have heard from the beginning' abiding in the church.

1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) (3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

That which was from the beginning is Christ, which is declared by the apostles to us. This means the entire Gospel Message, it means the apostolic teaching ('doctrine') as given by the apostles.

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Christ is with us because His Teaching, His commandments, His DOCTRINE, is obeyed, having been taught by His apostles. This is the exact same thing John was saying!

So the anointing teaches us in the sense that the original message of Christ, His doctrine or teaching, has been delivered to us, and if we abide in that doctrine we will not be led astray into error but will abide in Christ and have eternal life. Those who speak in or to the assembly must be tested to see whether or not their message is of the Holy Ghost, or not. It must be compared to the message taught by the apostles.

The passage quoted at the beginning does not refer to a situation where you are exposed to a teaching and you 'feel something inside' that either 'confirms or denies' what you were exposed to. That would make all doctrine subject to personal feelings and internal impulses, and would create chaos and lead many astray. Which is exactly the case in Christendom, and indeed in many apostolic churches! People reject doctrine because they 'do not feel confirmation inside', or they get hoodwinked into swallowing doctrines because they 'felt the witness inside'. Just like the Mormons with their 'burning in the bosom' as a 'confirmation' of their (false) doctrines.

The test of truth is not what you feel about it. The test of doctrine is not any internal feelings or burps or tingles or sensations or thoughts or ideas percolating in your mind. The test of truth is the WORD OF GOD. The Spirit of God is sent into the church to GUIDE - that is to say, TEACH - us, into ALL TRUTH. And Truth is the Word of God.The Spirit will never lead anyone to speak or teach contrary to the Word of God. He does not speak 'of Himself', meaning the Spirit does not give new revelations independent of Christ. Rather, the Spirit takes that which is of Christ, which belongs to Christ, and shows it to us. In other words, the Spirit teaches us about Christ, in accordance with the Word of God.

And the Word of God is delivered via the apostles' doctrine:

1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: (23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We are born again by the Word, which is a seed planted by those who preach the Gospel. Our souls are purified by obeying the truth through the Spirit, that is, by responding to and obeying the Word of God preached unto us, which is preached to us by the Gospel. If that abides in us, then we have an anointing in our midst and do not need to import teachers bringing us the latest new fangled doctrine, nor will we be led astray by the error of the false teachers and false prophets. We will abide in Christ's doctrine, and He will abide in us, and we will enjoy eternal life.

The false prophets who teach error mentioned in John's epistle are identified by various characteristics, of their doctrine and of their lifestyle. If they deny Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, if they deny Jesus is the Christ (according to how the apostles taught that), if they do not walk in obedience to Christ's commandments and His doctrine, then you can know they are not of God and their teachings and utterances are to be disregarded. If however everything lines up, and lines up with the Word of God, then it is the anointing of the Holy Ghost teaching the church, and not mere men.

[Amanah]

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27

This is not what John meant. He was not saying we don't need anyone to teach us in the sense that we can get truth or confirm truth merely by some internal impulse that we think is the Spirit 'confirming' something or 'revealing' something. That is not the context of what John is explaining here. Let's look at this a little closer.

I never said otherwise. Folks, we have to ensure we get someone's point before we start posting responses that turn out to be strawmen arguments.

I meant that we need teaching, of course. I teach, for goodness' sake! lol.

But there is something about the truth that it bears witness in us when we hear it. And I am saying that is what John related.

I fully agree they were to continue in the doctrine they heard from the start, which was delivered by the Spirit through apostles. Great point. But I was in no way saying we only confirm from internal impulses and don't need truth taught. I am saying people need to teach us the truth from the apostles, and it will witness with our spirits.

It's like this:

Rom 8:16 KJV....The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said otherwise. Folks, we have to ensure we get someone's point before we start posting responses that turn out to be strawmen arguments.

I meant that we need teaching, of course. I teach, for goodness' sake! lol.

But there is something about the truth that it bears witness in us when we hear it. And I am saying that is what John related.

Well, I don't think that is what John related at all. I think I demonstrated that John is speaking of the anointing of the Holy Ghost in the church, operating through those gifted to teach and preach the Word of God, in accordance with the apostles' doctrine (the doctrine of Christ), to keep the church from error. All teaching must be judged by that which was originally delivered to the saints by the apostles.

I fully agree they were to continue in the doctrine they heard from the start, which was delivered by the Spirit through apostles. Great point. But I was in no way saying we only confirm from internal impulses and don't need truth taught. I am saying people need to teach us the truth from the apostles, and it will witness with our spirits.

It's like this:

Rom 8:16 KJV....The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Agreed, although I would say that the Spirit bearing witness with our spirits that we are God's children has more to do with the testimony of the Spirit via the speaking in tongues that occurs when a person receives the Spirit, as well as the continued prophetic and revelatory utterances and other spiritual gifts that operate in the church.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Folks, we have to ensure we get someone's point before we start posting responses that turn out to be strawmen arguments.

I did not say I was refuting YOU, I used your statement in the other thread as a jump-point for this thread topic, because your statement revealed a common misconception that many have.

There is no straw man argument involved. In attempting to clarify what you meant, you said this:

"But there is something about the truth that it bears witness in us when we hear it. And I am saying that is what John related."

That is EXACTLY what I addressed in this thread. I did not create a different argument and then proceed to knock it down, and then turn around and claim I refuted your original claim. Rather, you made a claim that John was making a certain point, and I showed that he was NOT in fact making that point at all. In fact, come to think of it, he was in a manner refuting that point. The false prophets get all sorts of inward, internal impulses and sensations and thoughts and ideas they believe are divinely inspired, but that is irrelevent because what matters is if any teaching can be verified by the Word, particularly by the original teaching of the apostles which was once delivered to the saints. Hence, we are NOT to follow 'internal impulses', we are NOT to follow any 'feeling' we have inside that God is leading us, but rather we are to follow the WORD, and all impulses or feelings are to be rigorously examined in light of what Christ and His apostles originally taught.

But anyway, back to the original point, I think anyone can read what you stated, and what I responded to, and see that I dealt exactly with what you were saying, and showed that John did not teach what you were thinking he taught.

Here, I'll point it out once again:

You: I think that's why John said if we have the Spirit we don't need anyone to teach us, because the anointing teaches. In other words, you know what I mean, when someone receives truth it's like they always knew it, but never heard it before. The anointing in us responds to it and confirms it as truth.

Me: This is not what John meant. He was not saying we don't need anyone to teach us in the sense that we can get truth or confirm truth merely by some internal impulse that we think is the Spirit 'confirming' something or 'revealing' something. That is not the context of what John is explaining here.

You asserted we don't need anyone to teach us BECAUSE the anointing in us teaches us, by responding to received 'truth' and confirming it as truth.

That is the same thing as "...we don't need anyone to teach us in the sense that we can get truth or confirm truth merely by some internal impulse that we think is the Spirit 'confirming' something or 'revealing' something.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Exactly. And as we can see, the apostles actually all taught the same thing, each in their own way with the wisdom God gave to each.

[votivesoul]

As I see it, being taught of the Holy Spirit absolutely involves the work and ministry and gifting of others. We are not islands of revelation. Someone first wrote the inspired text, others preserved and copied it, and someone then translated it, and another taught us how to read, and later, someone led us to Christ, before we ever were taught exclusively by the Holy Spirit.

Additionally, it seems to me that whenever God uses someone to do something inspired, He gives the credit to Himself and not to the instrument. So, when any of the Biblical prophets spoke, it was always "Thus says the LORD", as if the prophet himself wasn't the one speaking.

In this way, when we are taught by the Holy Spirit, we can be so taught either by personal time with Rabbi Jesus, or by being in the presence of an anointed, inspired teacher, which, if we should learn something about God, His Word, even though another was the vessel, it was the Holy Spirit that did the teaching.

[mfblume]

Esaias, there is something MORE than just having been taught by apostles who were used by the Spirit. It's that, to be sure, and not apart from that. But also more. In no way is teaching of he apostles diminished in my view of this entire issue. John also said anyone who refuses to hear the apostles is not of God. Period. But there is more than that in view.

1 John 2:20 KJV But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

This unction or anointing is something additional to the apostles' doctrinal teachings to them. It is the very real presence of God in them.

It is certainly the influence of the Spirit from apostolic teaching. But also the Spirit itself in their lives. Nothing the inward presence of the Spirit would speak could ever be apart and unique from what the apostles taught. But at the same time, the presence of the Spirit endows a very real assurance in and of itself. When truth is given to us, if we have the Spirit we receive and experience a real unveiling of light. We realize truth better than those who heard the same truth but who do not have the Spirit in them.

The presence of the Spirit in us so strongly embeds truth in us that it simply is not the same with someone not Born of the Spirit.

More life in the truth is experienced and realized only by having the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

So, it is more than just having been taught by apostles who were used by the Spirit. There is also that element in us that is provided by the presence of the Spirit itself that is a powerful witness of truth. That's partly why John also said the Spirit and the Word agree.

When truth is preached we feel such a surge of the Holy Ghost in us. It's far more than simply having been taught by the Spirit's use of apostles.

Like Votivesoul said, we cannot serve God alone, with only the influence of the Spirit guiding us. The Spirit will work in many people together as a body about the same truth. But there is that element of the Spirit in an individual that cannot be denied. Like I said, when the Spirit speaks through someone, others who have the same Spirit know that they know that they know they have truth.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Esaias, there is something MORE than just having been taught by apostles who were used by the Spirit. It's that, to be sure, and not apart from that. But also more. In no way is teaching of he apostles diminished in my view of this entire issue. John also said anyone who refuses to hear the apostles is not of God. Period. But there is more than that in view.

1 John 2:20 KJV But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

This unction or anointing is something additional to the apostles' doctrinal teachings to them. It is the very real presence of God in them.

It is certainly the influence of the Spirit from apostolic teaching. But also the Spirit itself in their lives. Nothing the inward presence of the Spirit would speak could ever be apart and unique from what the apostles taught. But at the same time, the presence of the Spirit endows a very real assurance in and of itself. When truth is given to us, if we have the Spirit we receive and experience a real unveiling of light. We realize truth better than those who heard the same truth but who do not have the Spirit in them.

The presence of the Spirit in us so strongly embeds truth in us that it simply is not the same with someone not Born of the Spirit.

More life in the truth is experienced and realized only by having the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

So, it is more than just having been taught by apostles who were used by the Spirit. There is also that element in us that is provided by the presence of the Spirit itself that is a powerful witness of truth. That's partly why John also said the Spirit and the Word agree.

When truth is preached we feel such a surge of the Holy Ghost in us. It's far more than simply having been taught by the Spirit's use of apostles.

Like Votivesoul said, we cannot serve God alone, with only the influence of the Spirit guiding us. The Spirit will work in many people together as a body about the same truth. But there is that element of the Spirit in an individual that cannot be denied. Like I said, when the Spirit speaks through someone, others who have the same Spirit know that they know that they know they have truth.

Could you post the scriptures which teach what you are saying? The scriptures in John's epistle along with his Gospel, and in light of 1 Corinthians ch 12 and 14, seem to indicate that the anointing in the assembly which teaches, is none other than the Word of God coming forth from those He has set in the church to speak forth His Word, as I showed.