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Old 09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Contradiction?

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they. Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore. For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:15 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Can you provide the context please?
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:46 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Is the Lord merciful unto His seed forever more, or were there times where the Lord had had enough? The Scripture is full of this back and forth affect of Mercy today, Judgment tomorrow. I don’t blame God for this slide from left to right.

TBH, I see more of man's expression in these writings. We've all been guilty of being done with people, when in fact, God see's us the same way a Father see's his children.

Scripture has the face of men, and that’s OK with me because men wrote it.

We see how verses or texts from the Bible are used to appease the moment when man wants to lay the hammer down. We pick and choose to highlight OUR intention to control people. Either God is merciful or He’s going to wipe the slate clean, and the latter does not jive with Calvary.

I think this is one reason the Pharisees hated Jesus; he was merciful. Forgiveness is man’s greatest need, as fault is in EVERYTHING we touch or do. There are none who are good enough; it doesn’t matter how close you follow Scripture, as men from the past tried this and they became the worst of the worst!
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:52 AM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they. Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore. For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
I think it's more an example of the biblical God changing His mind than a contradiction. The biblical God is such an angry God, especially in the OT, and He says things He really doesn't mean sometimes and later repents and relents.

Just don't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....He'll kill you for that.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:56 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

If this sort of thing troubles your faith in the God of the Bible... study Apokatastasis. Though it's not a traditional interpretation, it might preserve your faith and give you a wider vision of God's grace and mercy.

Keep in mind... throughout Scripture, the majority of judgments were temporal.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:18 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
If this sort of thing troubles your faith in the God of the Bible... study Apokatastasis. Though it's not a traditional interpretation, it might preserve your faith and give you a wider vision of God's grace and mercy.

Keep in mind... throughout Scripture, the majority of judgments were temporal.
Aquila, I did look into this a little. Very interesting.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:39 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
I think it's more an example of the biblical God changing His mind than a contradiction. The biblical God is such an angry God, especially in the OT, and He says things He really doesn't mean sometimes and later repents and relents.

Just don't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....He'll kill you for that.
Your response may seem somewhat cynical to people, but many agree with your feelings about the "Biblical God" or the Man written God. It seems the Wrath of Man has bled into the paper.

I don't believe it is wrong to evaluate the Scripture with a realist approach instead of a Religious one. Religion loves an angry God, while the realist sees the absolute necessity of mercy towards a being who is born with few days, and much trouble.

It puzzles me that people today somehow think we have arrived with the "Truth", harboring their idea as the only way. I see this as a trap, leading to the end result of Anger and a fierce God to those who disobey a particular form of Faith.

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Just watch the cycle of the Jews. One day they were Hero’s, the next day they were Heathens. We boast great things today, but the fact remains, the cycle of sin in us will eventually bring us down. No, one Generation can claim a righteous Heritage, and Religions that rise with the Heroic banner of Knowledge will one day fall like the tide of the sea.

Our only hope is Calvary, where mans effort is NONE.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:23 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
Your response may seem somewhat cynical to people, but many agree with your feelings about the "Biblical God" or the Man written God. It seems the Wrath of Man has bled into the paper.

I don't believe it is wrong to evaluate the Scripture with a realist approach instead of a Religious one. Religion loves an angry God, while the realist sees the absolute necessity of mercy towards a being who is born with few days, and much trouble.

It puzzles me that people today somehow think we have arrived with the "Truth", harboring their idea as the only way. I see this as a trap, leading to the end result of Anger and a fierce God to those who disobey a particular form of Faith.

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Just watch the cycle of the Jews. One day they were Hero’s, the next day they were Heathens. We boast great things today, but the fact remains, the cycle of sin in us will eventually bring us down. No, one Generation can claim a righteous Heritage, and Religions that rise with the Heroic banner of Knowledge will one day fall like the tide of the sea.

Our only hope is Calvary, where mans effort is NONE.
I don't think our sole hope is Calvary, even though Calvary may offer positive benefits. If Calvary was the answer, there wouldn't be the problems facing the world after 2000 years of Calvary being preached and practiced throughout the world.

There has to be something better and more effective. Maybe something based on love rather than the message of a wrathful God.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:11 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
I don't think our sole hope is Calvary, even though Calvary may offer positive benefits. If Calvary was the answer, there wouldn't be the problems facing the world after 2000 years of Calvary being preached and practiced throughout the world.

There has to be something better and more effective. Maybe something based on love rather than the message of a wrathful God.
I guess from my background of being in the Military, I understand the concept of laying a life down for a friend. I think this is why I see Calvary the way I do.

The Lord giving of himself in this way carries a passion of great love, as our need is beyond the hope of man’s efforts. Mercy and forgiveness seem to rest here like no other place in the Bible.

I've pondered the Veil being rent in two. What was exposed was the Mercy Seat, something only a few saw in the past, and the Religion of old was destroyed.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:53 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Contradiction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
I guess from my background of being in the Military, I understand the concept of laying a life down for a friend. I think this is why I see Calvary the way I do.

The Lord giving of himself in this way carries a passion of great love, as our need is beyond the hope of man’s efforts. Mercy and forgiveness seem to rest here like no other place in the Bible.

I've pondered the Veil being rent in two. What was exposed was the Mercy Seat, something only a few saw in the past, and the Religion of old was destroyed.
I don't believe God was bent on killing humanity when His Son stepped in and died in our place. That seems to be one of the messages that mainstream Christianity teaches, but I cannot accept the belief that God, in His unforgiveness, anger and wrath, was somehow appeased when another person died for us.
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