Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

What book would you suggest for someone who isn't getting over leaving a church that doesn't allow them to have contact with their family and friends because they left that church?

This person still loves all those people, sees those people wherever they go to shop and is becoming a depressed recluse. People tell this individual to just pretend they died and get on with life, but they face these people all the time so they can't pretend they are dead.

I know there some books on cults, and I would say they left a cult, but I don't know of any books that deal with facing family and friends that are the same as family but knowing you will never have a relationship with them again. Has a book been written about this?l

I don't want this post to start another series of attacks on the UPC way of shunning. It is terrible and wrong for sure, but what we need is a way to help those that have left such movements and their only "sin" is leaving the cult and living for God.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

Churches that Abuse and Toxic Faith come to mind.

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Boundaries by Cloud/Townsend might also help.

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So sad.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

A person who leaves may need several months of "reclusiveness". They need time to adjust, study, regain their balance. They may do most of their shopping at times they know former friends are in church or simply not want to leave their house because they are trying to process so much and answer so many questions at once... questions they denied and pushed away while in church that now surface in droves as reality hits.

These kinds of things are problematic for the one leaving in very different ways than the church often realizes. It may hurt that they weren't the friends the person thought they were, it may be disturbing knowing what members are probably thinking and saying about the person, and it probably makes the person angry that members would behave in such an unChristian manner or that the person ever thought they were nice. It can also be frustrating because the person may remember doing the same things to others when they were shunned and the person was in church. A person can also deal with intense fear and guilt-fear that they will die in a car accident or that they don't deserve to have fun because they left.

It will help her immensely to have a good support group-whether that is an official local support group, an online group, or a group of caring friends that will listen and who have been through similar situations and respect her feelings and beliefs. You might encourage her to go with you to some various activities during her former church's times or out of town and away from all of them, or even to visit at your house or hers for coffee now and then. It can take months before a person feels safe, and sometimes a year or more. I'm sure she appreciates your encouragement and concern and prayers, whether she's voiced that or not.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

The bible

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

I would suggest the Spiritual Abuse Website
and their group called Christian-- Koinonia Support
at
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/
and
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/index.php

They have a group on Facebook at
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...08470765842875

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

The Bible, seriously?? Obviously you don't have a clue about leaving a cult. When a person leaves a cult, sometimes they can't even read the Bible. When they read the Bible, all they hear in their head is what they were taught the Bible says. They don't know truth from a lie if they grew up being taught lies.

Besides, we aren't talking fixing their theology, we are talking about helping them deal with seeing 100's of people they love, including blood relatives, that they are not even allowed to talk to.

Do you think the Bible will help them quit loving those people, so they don't wish to be with them?

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

You are silly. No one mentions the bible before me and you give me a sermon.

Self Help Book Suggestion

Self help is not the best way. Stores are loaded with self help books. Only the bible is rich in wisdom and creating discernement.

I will put in your court. List 2 examples how the bible would be detrimental to this issue.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

SeekingOne already did that.

I can add a couple more if you'd like:
4) religion is being used against them. The Bible is used by the group, and it will take time (lots of it) to untangle what the Bible says from the actions of the group and the way they used the scriptures to prove they were right in those actions.
5) the group probably really has used the Bible to prove their actions were right
6) the person can probably quote the Bible quite well. They also probably have been taught to misread or simply ignore certain verses.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

Those are reasons to go to the bible actually. Having people put a little spin on each and every selected verse may be the problem.

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I should send you to the cult this person left, you would get along just great there. Maybe you belong to it already?

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I haven't read this book, but I've heard really good things about it. I'm on the waiting list to get it from the library.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

I would suggest reading the Bible but in a newer translation/version.
The Living Bible is an older version but I personally still consider it a good one.
I just like the way Ken Taylor expresses some stuff.
The New Living Translation is good.

I'm not really KJV only but I basically judge everything by the KJV.
I like the NKJV because it is so much like the KJV but without some of the archaic terms.

The reason I would recommend a newer translation is because when reading the KJV the person would just hear some of the old condemnation and guilt trips echoed in the wording of the KJV.

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Hey Codie, I don't want to get into anything here. You hit a hot spot. Anyway, you really don't know what it is like to leave a cult, so you you just need to back off with the Bible thing. This person could quote most of the Bible to you, they even know God loves them. What they need help with is dealing with seeing family and friends and pretending they are dead when they are very much alive.

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2 very common examples of religions that use shunning are Amish and Mormons. Does this case have examples of shunning?

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Ah, coadie I think if you family and friends are pretending you are dead would constitute as shunning.

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This is funny. I would stir things up. Actually if it was me, I would walk right back into that church and initiate a little conversation. That is the last thing they would expect. I attend a good sized church so shunning doesn't work very well if anyone thought of trying it. Too many people would forget the long list of people they shouldn't talk to.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

Well I promise that is not always the case, I lived it first hand- and for a married 22-year old, it wasn't too bad, for the teenages who I knew, who were not allowed to talk to any of the ONLY friends that they were allowed to have for the first 14 and 16 years of their life, it was difficult. (They still struggle to this day)

When you are walking through Walmart and you see women who you had parties and teas with, who you prayed for hours at an altar with, that can see you and literally stop and turn their cart the other direction, yea not so easy.

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You gave a very vivid example. I had an employee with an issue with a person outside my company. I helped her innitiate with the other party and they cried and became best friends. Neither lady knew how to approach it and I helped one break the ice. They became friends.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

SeekerOne, it will get better. But it is a really hard transition. I wonder sometimes how many "backsliders'' were simply struggling that we pushed out with our self-righteousness and shunning. Who is a person to turn to when their friends and family desert them?

I have a book called Thank You [for Being Such a Pain]. I've never read the book, but the title has been a huge encouragement.

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Ah, and these two were from the same Pentecostal church and one still attended and the other did not? One was in a group that shunned the other individual?

You call Rick Ross a self-proclaimed expert? :spit

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He has a criminal history and his stuff is nearly 100% just googling the web for stories. Ross has his one man business/appartment hidden because of some court cases he lost.

He does claim to have handled deprogramming cases.

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Coadie: http://www.nndb.com/people/265/000091989/

SeekerOne: You might want to check into articles dealing with ostracism or teen pressures and bullying from a purely secular standpoint. Even reading novels or watching movies about how people deal with these issues might help. (To Save a Life is one example of a movie that deals with this issue.) Reaching out to others who have also been shunned also helps, as long as those people don't continuously express anger and bitterness toward those who've wronged them.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotion...dvice_for_Kids)
http://www.doxtop.com/browse/89d4b03...ial-death.aspx

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

Just for the record, there isn't a "UPC way of shunning". There may be individual churches/pastors that do that, but it's not something that is unique to the UPC or necessarily a UPC thing.

Are there UPCs that do it? Yes and it's sad. My experience though has been the reverse, people that have left shun us for whatever reason. Personally I just brush it off. If I were to leave a church like that I would find another church family and when I run into those folks I would remind myself not to take it personally but feel sorry for those individuals who are so jacked up.

I don't know of any book out that there that deals with this specifically from the stand point of how to get over it. To me "getting over" stuff just seems to be a natural process of time and will

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You can't walk into this church. It is not open to you unless you are a member. They have "guards" at the entrance to the property and in the foyer of the building they meet at. Sound like a cult yet? Funny thing is, the community thinks they are sweet wonderful people, because they are. The public only knows how sweet they are, they don't know what actually goes on.

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Amazing. Can you walk out?

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And this is a UPC?

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Oh sure, but if you leave, you leave family and friends forever. The people that shun you hurt as much as you do, because they miss you and love you and think you are going to hell. There isn't anyone to be mad at, just a whole lot of pain. I have been there, I know.

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No, they left the UPC and started their on gig. They expanded the UPC stuff and added a whole lot of their own rules about how to get to heaven.

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Oh. That sounds dangerous. They are trying to keep people out, like they have something to hide. Did they have the guards when they were UPC?

Where is this church?

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Yes, they have much to hide. It can take years of visiting before you will know the half of it, and then you might be a member for years before you learn some things. "Oh, but they are so sweet. All the things people that have left say about them are just blown out of proportion or flat out lies." That is what people say about them. Well, part of that is true. They are all very sweet people, but what people say about them is true too.

Oh the "guards" are because people are not ready for the "truth" yet. On the side of the fence I am on now, that translates as that they haven't had time to brainwash them yet. They do it slowly over a period of years so that it becomes your idea and you actually feel privileged that you are worthy of membership.

It isn't a place for the stupid and unintelligent people. They have lawyers, doctors and a LOT of really smart people. Hey, they almost suckered Sis. Alvear into their cult. Then when she left they kept her and her spiritual mom from contacting each other. Yeah, they think the Alvear's are going to hell. LOL Sad but true.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

Thanks, I think you might have the right direction for this person to go to.

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This website requires that you identify yourself, so that one is out. Thanks though.

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You cannot join unless you tell who you are. That's correct. You have to apply for membership.
That is a safeguard to try to keep spammers out and trollers and fighters out.
You do not have to use your own name to post and the other members on there don't know your identity.
I have been a member there for years.
I use my real name but I wouldn't have to.

Re: Self Help Book Suggestion?
 

I don't have a book suggestion... but I think it's similar to a grieving process. You have to allow time to grieve, and then you have to come to grips with the way things are. You have to some way, as hard as it is, accept the new reality. You need to make new friends, build a good life for yourself. You can't get new family, though, so it's a constant pain, I'm sure.

Also, pray for the whole family's deliverance. This person was delivered, so it's not out of the realm of possibility for the entire family to have their eyes opened.

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"The subtle power of spiritual abuse"

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That is great, but when people are told that if you talk to the people who left you are going to end up on the slippery slope to hell, just like they are- it tends to keep people from approching the ones who left.
The people who stayed at the church were TOLD by the pastor NOT to fellowship or even communicate with us! Since you are there to mediate, Codie- How do you suggest this be handled?

BTW this was 13 years ago and these people are 3000 miles away- so I do not see them anymore, I am simply stating that you are either unaware of how upsetting and serious this is or you are simply ignoring the fact that it is happening.

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Weird how they think by treating people this way will make them feel like coming back. I wish the leadership did not blackmail people this way. Both those still there and those that left are very hurt by all of this.

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It's can be a form of witchcraft, word curses. The will curse others with words to try to manipulate others.