Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

This issue was originally being discussed in the thread on women pastors. Because all the posts on this topic do not carry over from there, I think it will be best for everyone to list whether they think Isaiah 3 is for or against jewelry and a few reasons why they think that in order to refresh everyone's minds on the issue.

I will list mine later, I just wanted to get the thread started as soon as possible.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Gladly and with great joy will I address this issue because I was raised UPCI where at least we could have wedding rings. But another issue came up while I was pastoring, when a sister came to me concerning another subject and said we preach such and such and she had been doing some study on her own and found things were not as we had preach as truth she said she felt lied to.
This cause me to go back to the book and ask God to put his word even more in my heart. Understand I thought I knew the word front and back by this time but things had been accepted by myself as the word of God if they seem to make sence. So now I began to question everything and study things frontwards and backwards. I found that most everything I had been taught as sound word of God (standards of holiness) were mans meanings and not what the word accualy said. This finally caused me to leave UPCI after 45 years. I hung on for 20 years after God showed me his truth.

Now as for Isaiah let me break this down s l o w l y

Isa 3:16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

Everything listed are attitudes nothing has to do with jewlery, even the tinkling with their feet is hard put to make mean jewlery.

Isa 3:17 Therefore Because oftheir sensual, prideful,haughty attitude
the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.
the first thing God is going to do is strike their head with scab. This will take away their pride and haughtyness.
I would go on but I think anyone with a open heart to the spirit of what God is doing will get the drift.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

I agree that the women were condemned because of their pride and arrogance, not because they wore jewelry, styled their hair, looked in mirrors, wore perfume, wore bonnets and head bands and had more than one outfit of clothing.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

My pastor told us of a preacher who preached that when Isaiah 3:18 said that God would take away "their round tires like the moon" it was a prophecy of how tires would be rationed during World War 2. That was preached during World War 2.

That may seem humorous but it's probably about as good Bible exposition as preaching about wearing wedding rings from that same chapter today.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

It never seases to amaze me how some of the doctrines of performance based religions are founded on such slim scriptural basis as this. They also use I Timothy 2:9 to teach against jewlery yet don't say anything about women putting up their hair in hair doos, and the scripture says not braided hair. They pick and choose what they want to preach against. I once heard a pastor preach against beards using I Corintians 11:4 saying the face is part of the head and therefore should not be covered. Aw well Only God is my judge.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Let's make this quick and easy:

If Isaiah 3 is a sermon against jewelry, it's also a sermon against beauty, smelling sweet and "well set hair."

Why do people pick and choose?

Isaiah 3:24 "And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty."

The daughters of Zion weren't being punished because of their ornaments; their ornaments (among other things) were being taken away because of their sin.

Isaiah 3:16 "Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: 17 Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. 18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,"

The overall gist of this chapter is about women who draw attention to themselves both with their behavior and with their ornaments (making a tinkling with their feet). We KNOW that God didn't condemn jewelry across the board because of its legitimate use in other passages of scripture. However, one CAN use ornamentation to draw attention to oneself in an inappropriate way, the same as walking with "stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go" would.

"Mincing" is an interesting word...according to Strong's it means "apparently to trip (with short steps) coquettishly."

I've seen some completely unadorned Apostolic women "mincing" along. :coffee2

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Often because their splits were sewn up and they could barely move their legs. :D

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Buncha liberals on this thread.....

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Way to go missbrattified I checked out the tinkling with their feet but did not add it to my post. I love the way people fill in the blanks some times

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

The same person who was discussing this on the other thread (not the originator of this thread) also says that 1 Cor 11 has nothing to do with headship, therefore all women are subject to all men.

No, don't tell him he's wrong. He's arrived, and he's right.

I challenged him to post a poll. He said I was silly for suggesting such a thing.

Chicken. LOL!

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Actually, the whole chapter is based on God taking away everything that they had placed their confidence in. He wanted them to fully trust and follow Him alone.

It's really not about jewelry at all. It is about where they had placed their confidence and derived their pleasure.

He takes away (Isaiah 3:1-3): the stay and staff, whole stay of bread and water, the mighty man, man of war, the judge, the prophet, the prudent, the ancient, the captain of fifty, the honourable man, the counselor, the cunning artificer, the eloquent orator.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Exactly. He took the good things of life away from them to get their attention.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Okay, this is seriously funny!!! :toofunny I had a person say, "Your slit is a little high." I looked behind me and said, "Oh, really?" Then I walked off and forgot about it. :toofunny

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

I always hoped a crazed nut didn't take off chasing me! I would have just gone kerplunk on my face, and it would have all been over. :ursofunny

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

:toofunny

I never sew my slits. If the back of me knees are not showing, I'm good. :D LOL!

And if anyone did chase me - I'd hike up my skirt and kick them where it counts! :toofunny

I did hear of a woman that picked her nose and began to eat her boogers. It turned the attacker off. I think I'd prefer kicking someone as opposed to..... :toofunny

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

GROSS...there was a woman on Oprah who purposely pee-ed (how on earth do you spell that???) on her attacker--he let her go, too. LOL!!!!! I'd rather do the latter than pick my nose and eat the boogers. :vomit

Do you know what MAKES boogers? It's all the dirt and germs you breath in during the day mixed with mucous. *gag* So people who eat them are eating dirt, viruses, bacteria, etc., mixed with mucous. I bet if they did a study, there would be a higher rate of illness among booger-eaters.

Okay, I'm making myself sick.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

I am now officially fasting through lunch and dinner today! :toofunny

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

And exactly how are they going to conduct this study?

"Looking for people to submit to a study of health. Need both booger eaters and non-booger eaters. Indicate how many boogers you eat on the average day with your questionaire. Liars need not apply."

ROFL!!

Yeah, I can see the massive sign-ups now. People admitting to eating boogers may be on the rise if there's enough money being offered!

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

Well, anyway. That's the lecture I give my son. Jeffrey thinks its hilarious to catch the girls' attention at the dinner table, then stick his finger up his nose, then in his mouth. Of course, they yell and scream and get sick about it, and that makes it fun for him. So, I've been telling him about the germy part of it to try to discourage him.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

I liked a boy in 2nd Grade because he could wiggle his ears! Isn't that romantic?!!!!!!!!! :toofunny

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

It's safe to say that THIS time we didn't hijack the thread with SHOES. :D :D :D

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Catch that on your camera phone and threaten to show it to future girlfriends if he continues! LOL!

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Or cut hair and pants on women! LOL!

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Haha, thanks ladies. Just remember if ya try to hijack my thread I'm goina use my super man-thority powers... and you'll be sorry! JKJKJK

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

BRING IT!!!!! :boxing

:D

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

The reminds me how about the time of 9-11, I was hearing people say the bible predicted it. I forgot which verse they were using but it said something about towers falling or something like that. Of course what they were claiming was nonsense. I just find it amazing how people do this kind of thing.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Most anti-jewelry people I know don't even use these verses to support their view. It's just so obviously not the point.

God had blessed them. They forgot him. They walked around haughtily, prissing and prancing in all of their finery. So, God had had enough of it. He took away his blessings.

It would be like me giving my child a bicycle, and then taking that bicycle away because the child used it in a disobedient action. He wasn't being punished for having the bicycle (which I gave him!), but for his attitude and disobedience after receiving the bicycle.

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Context context context,WHO was God speaking to and about?..This is something Apostolics do not consider,don't worry,you have not been taught to do that,you have been taught to take the Word of God literal.It is literal,but not all of it.Lot of metaphoric language being used and it even carries over into the New.:thumbsup

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

Great illustration as to the heart of the matter in Isaiah 3. :thumbsup

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

context, context, context

a text
taken from its context
is usually just a pretext

Re: Isaiah 3 and jewelry...
 

I absolutly agree Apostolics have a tendancy to take things out of context although I have not taken it out of context I was leaving it in context just trying to expaining what it was saying to those that take it out of context.
btw I am former Apostolic. I don't know what class I fall into now. lol

Oh please..............
 

Now we've resorted to outright dishonesty I see eh, Joy?

I NEVER said that I Cor. 11 is not talking about headship. I said that not one single reputable translation mentions "husband/wife," but rather the subject matter is heirarchial structure & lineage. 1.) God, 2.) Christ, the Messiah, 3.) Man, 4) Woman. That's what the literal text says...YOU are the one supplying the "Husband/Wife" scenario via your theology.

I see in your 2nd sentence above that it's just fine for you to resort to "Ad Hominem" attacks. Of course, that's what they usually do when they cannot find Scripture to support their position.

As for your "poll," I simply pointed out that you're employing the logical fallacy, "Argumentum ad Populum." That is, an appeal to the populace for your doctrinal posture...which has absolutely NOTHING to do w/ the actual text of God's Word. If this be the case you probably would've been screaming "Give us Barrabbas," along w/ the Jews that day! So, yes, it is a silly suggestion.

So much for your "chicken" charge....LOL.

Finally something we can agree on................
 

Well said!

The reason I'm not responding to this thread is because it's absolutely astounding how far people will go to erase the written Word of God in order to justify their disobedience.

What was God thinking inspiriing Isaiah to enumerate all of those verses regarding jewelry [not to mention the multitude of others]....when jewelry "had nothing to do w/ it"?????????????????????

I guess ol' Isaiah just needed to fill up some space????

Not hardly. Going to another forum...this one is not worth the time..........

Re: Oh please..............
 

Only responding to this to correct what I said before. You are correct that you didn't refer to headship, but stated that the chapter had nothing to do with marriage.

And not only do I disagree with that, but so does everyone else on this forum, and all the Biblical scholars in the world. Headship definitely refers to a marriage whether you want to believe that or not. I highly doubt you make your wife (if you have one) submit to all men as her head.

Re: Finally something we can agree on.............
 

Translation: I'm the head of all women on this forum and they aren't listening to me, so I'm taking my toys and going elsewhere.

Don't let the door hit you in the.....well, you know.

Re: Finally something we can agree on.............
 

I find it funny how people refuse to see what is right before there eyes. Earlyer I refered to Ezekiel 16 where God gave them jewlery and someone came back and said I was using a parablic passage to justify jewlery. Well ya It was still the voice of God to Ezekial telling him what to say. The fact remains God gave Isreal her wealth and she used it in whoredom and God judged her. Bottom line. I mean if God blesses me with a nice car and I use that car to sell Drugs for instance and God takes that car away from me and my home and a few other blessing he has given me does that mean that the car was a sin or the home etc. A Big Resounding No !!! Yet this is how some use scripture to preach doctrines against things they think are wrong. This covers the hair issue and several other issues in my opinion.

Say What?????????????
 

"....and all the Biblical scholars in the world"? Proof pls.:____________? Man, you just make things up as you go apparently! That's an unbelievably off-base statement. Almost as bad as, "Paul will not judge me"!!

Marriage certainly flows into the context, but the passage in question was I Cor. 11:7, which simply says, "....woman [not "wife"] is the glory of man [not "husband"]." Hmmm, do your "scholars" include the approximately 1000 linguistical experts who ALWAYS translate this word as "man" & "woman"?????

I guess you see something that they missed? I doubt it!

Re: Finally something we can agree on.............
 

Translation: I'm not under submission to no man, since I'm a victim of the modern western feminists liberal movement, so no matter how much God-breathed Scripture you provide, I'll just ignore it & attack you out of my rebellious spirit.

Re: Finally something we can agree on.............
 

Agree, "people refuse to see what is right before their eyes." "....N-O-T with gold, or pearls, or costly array." [I Tim. 2:9].

Do you know what the term "not" means?

Re: Finally something we can agree on.............
 

Furthermore, would God someone a nice (and expensive) car as a blessing, then in the next breath proclaim ALL expensive cars as off limits? That is close to what we are being told to believe in regards to jewelry.