Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

You need to go back and read what I wrote slowly. I essentially said that Jesus is a man who is one with God. He is both, man... and God. The human tabernacle of God Almighty. Even Muhammed will testify to Jesus being the human tabernacle of God at the judgment.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

1Co 9:7-14 KJV Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? (8) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? (9) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? (10) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. (11) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (12) If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. (13) Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? (14) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Learn the bible better.

Your reference in 2 Cor is dealing with people who pervert the word, as you have done with Revelation 1, if you want to know the truth of that verse. Little wonder you are unable to read Rev 1 properly.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

yikes?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

I see you are back. Told you I had to fold the laptop and relocate, which has been done successfully. Weather report: High today was 120 F. Very dusty.

I must defer to your "scholars" on the above. Here is a summary of but one, but they pretty much concur so I have lots and lots of them and if needed I will by God spoon feed them to you one at a time. Below is italicized because it was copied and pasted. Source: ? Charis Bible College ? Spelling is hopefully correct.

In Greek usage, the word "KAPELEUO" ("corrupt") denotes the selling of teaching for money, the merchandising of God's Word for sordid gain (Ac 8:20 and 20:33). What Paul called the corrupting of God's Word was the offering of the Word of God for money, the selling of it, peddling it, and retailing it. This is distinctly different from the principle of receiving gifts as a result of having sown spiritual things (1Co 9:11 and 13-14).

Seems I was bang up dead on accurate with my interpretation and here you are once again misleading your breathless audience of sheeple. Perhaps you should learn the bible better before challenging your betters on such a trivial matter. Selling, peddling, and retailing Jesus on the internet falls accurately under the definition of 'kapeleuo' as outlined above.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

I read it. I also noted 3 passages where Jesus was with God at the same point in time and Jesus was in one place and God was in another place.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

That is pure nonsense, God is omnipresent, he is everywhere at the same time. he can not be confined to a particular place.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

In this particular passage He was sitting on His throne. Jesus was not.

What is nonsense is your post. Kindly note that it is pretty numb to draw a conclusion that because a particular passage says God was sitting on His throne handing a scroll to Jesus (who was not on said throne but standing in the middle of those around it) it means "God is confined to His throne" <shakes head>

From Rev 5:

6 And I saw [g]between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.

Original point is this: There is God and God's throne and God is sitting there and then there is Jesus NOT on God's throne at the exact same point in time standing there. Is that clear enough? There is no silly logic that can explain why God has to "split himself in two" to hand a scroll to another part of himself but it sure is entertaining to hear you folks explain these very clear depictions of God's place and Jesus' place away.

There were two other examples of this that were previously shared. Please do not "confine" God based on those examples either. <re-shakes head> WOW

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Silence, I see, after several days' worth of hiatus.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

I was teasing a bit in the previous post. The translators of these passages could probably have been vetted a lot better I think

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

...Don't you understand that God can manifest himself as Jesus and the Father at the same time. The one true God is a spirit. We won't see him. We can't. We can only see what he manifests himself as. So yes, God was on the throne, yes God took the scroll out of Gods hand.

I don't get why the oneness believers are having trouble explaining that portion of their doctrine to you. It's kinda sad because their doctrine was built to explain such instances.

It's not that I agree with them, but you simply saying look here's Jesus and here's God beside him and they are interacting... that doesn't disprove their doctrine.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

I said a lot more than that. I said that Jesus said he would be there in the Gospels. He said he would be at the right hand of God. He said pray to God and he did pray to God. He said nothing was given to him except by God, he did not say that He gave himself his own power and words.

This vision in Revelation only validated what Jesus already said. Nowhere did Jesus ever say "I am God".

Take the writings literally = No further explaining, or jumping from place to place, or added logic, or interpretative 'help' needed or required. "Build" a "doctrine" requires all of these things yes?

This is why those of whom you speak are having trouble explaining specific, stand-alone passages because specific, stand-alone passages do not support a doctrine "built" of disjointed, unrelated, out-of-context verses taken randomly from here and there. Furthermore to hold up the passages on which the doctrine is "built" have to be carefully taken from carefully selected "versions" of the translations or it all falls apart. <re-shakes head>

Surah 5:13-15 But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others). And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did. O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

John 1:1-14 Specifies that there was something in the beginning with God that also was God and that made all things and then became human. Do you believe this or is it a faulty translation?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Is that the chapter that contains this verse?

"God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare"

No, seems like an accurate translation

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

People have different understandings; i get this. While i cannot grasp how
God is the head of Christ
could possibly be stretched to "Christ is God," we obviously all come from the same Spirit, which is God's. But how are you guys who are trying to make Christ, our High Priest, into God the Father, going to answer, "therefore, I am God?" I mean, after all, Christ is the Son of Man, right? And Daniel is called son of man by...Gabriel, i think it was...and i am the same as Daniel (as if)...i mean please, the end of that can only be "satan is God." There is simply no other conclusion. You sound like new-agers with this, wadr.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

What was with god in the beginning and that all things were made by that became flesh? What was that?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Here is your opportunity to identify the exact source and explain the meaning of this passage. It is contradictory to the rest of the book.

It is written differently than the rest of the book. It is an adder. So where did it come from and what does it mean and who put it there?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

:popcorn2

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

It went from being an accurate translation to being added so quickly?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Colwell's Rule and John 1:1

A Greek scholar named E. C. Colwell discovered a rule which applied to certain uses of the Greek article (in English this is the word “the”). His rule stated that “definite predicate nouns which precede the verb usually lack the article.”1 The word theos (God) in John 1:1c is a predicate noun and it is anarthrous (it lacks the article). The question I would like to address is: “How does this rule apply to John 1:1 and how does this relate to a Oneness perspective of this passage?”

In the past, Trinitarians have argued that Colwell’s rule proves that the anarthrous theos in John 1:1c (the Word was God) must be taken as definite. They have done so to combat Arianism and modern day Jehovah’s Witnesses. The New World Translation, the official Bible of Jehovah’s Witnesses, translates John 1:1c as “the Word was a god.” So we can see why Trinitarian scholars would object to such a translation and instead argue for a definite theos, thus proving the deity of Christ in this passage. However, as Daniel Wallace has pointed out, simply appealing to Colwell’s rule alone does not prove that theos must be taken as definite.2 His rule would only say that if theos is definite then it would probably lack the article (and it does). But the reverse is not necessarily true. Simply lacking the article in this construction does not make the noun definite.

Wallace goes on to argue that theos should not be taken as definite but instead as qualitative, thus emphasizing “the nature of the Word, rather than his identity.” The glosses which he suggests bring out this idea are, “What God was, the Word was” (NEB), or “the Word was divine” (a modified Moffatt translation).3 He also states that a definite theos in this passage would imply Sabellianism or Modalism (making Jesus to be God the Father, i.e., a Oneness perspective). In a footnote he quotes several other Greek scholars which concur, some even more emphatically (Westcott, A. T. Robertson, Lange, Chemnitz, Alford and even Martin Luther).4

My question to all of these grammarians is this: “Why does a definite theos have to refer to God the Father, since all three persons are co-equal in Trinitarian theology?” The Holy Spirit is identified as “God” with the article present in Acts 5:3-4. Jesus is identified as “God” with the article present in John 20:28, Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. Wallace acknowledges these passages, but states that (in John 20:28) “there is nothing in that context that would identify [Jesus] with the Father.”5 But if God is a Trinity, I see nothing in John 1:1b (“the Word was with God”) that would require that this occurrence of theos be identified as God the Father either.6 It simply says that “the Word was with God (article present).” Why could this not be referring to God the Holy Spirit? Surely if God is an eternal Trinity then Jesus would have been with him (God the Holy Spirit) in the beginning as well.

The point we should note here is that when a Trinitarian reads the word “God,” he (rightly) assumes that it refers to God the Father, unless there is reason to believe otherwise. Somehow, the Father is more ‘God’ than the other two people. So if a definite theos in this passage would make Jesus God the Father (as Wallace and the other grammarians above have stated) then I see no reason why a definite theos applied to Jesus anywhere else in the New Testament would not also make Jesus God the Father! (such as in the passages noted above).

So what other options were open to John? He could have easily left theos anarthrous and still put it after the verb, thus retaining the qualitative sense that Wallace argues for. So it was not necessary to place it before the verb merely for that reason. The fact that he chose to put it before the verb and to the beginning of the phrase would seem to indicate emphasis (The Word was God!). As mentioned before, Colwell’s rule states that “definite predicate nouns which precede the verb usually lack the article.”7 So if John intended a definite theos and wanted to emphasize the word “God,” then he would have said it exactly how he did! Now, I am in agreement with Wallace, that Colwell’s rule does not prove a definite theos, but it most definitely supports it. Even he admits that a definite theos is “certainly possible grammatically.”8

Furthermore, you could only derive a Trinitarian interpretation from John 1:1 if you come to this passage with an already developed Trinitarian theology. If you approached it with a strict Monotheism (which is what I believe John held to) then this passage would definitely support such a view. If John had wanted to emphasize the word theos then he would have moved it to the beginning of the phrase before the verb and thus, (according to Colwell’s rule) it would be anarthrous (as it is).

Footnotes

1. E. C. Colwell, A Definite Rule for the Use of the Article in the Greek New Testament, p. 20, quoted in Wallace, GGBB, 257.
2. Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996), 269.
3. Wallace, 269. He does not however suggest that these glosses should actually be used in a translation since they can be misleading.
4. Wallace, 268.
5. Wallace, 268.
6. Which is how a Trinitarian reads this passage - ". . . the Word was WITH God the Father, and the Word WAS God the Son" (emphasis added).
7. Colwell, A Definite Rule, quoted in Wallace, GGBB, 257.
8. Wallace, 268. He still argues against it for reasons of frequency and theology, p. 269.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/colwell.htm#back1

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Yes the prologue to the chapter is an adder.

So what is the source? Who wrote it? What is the meaning? There are many interpretations, so from the source, what are the possible meanings?

Koine Greek Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεός ἦν ὁ Λόγος.[3]
Greek transliteration En archē ēn ho Lógos, kai ho Lógos ēn pros ton Theón, kai Theós ēn ho Lógos.

Greek to English In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (toward) the God, and God was the Word.

-------alternate Greek (beginning: original, foundation, source, principle) (Word: reason, saying) (with: toward, facing)

Syriac Peshitta ܒ݁ܪܺܫܺܝܬ݂ ܐܺܝܬ݂ܰܘܗ݈ܝ ܗ݈ܘܳܐ ܡܶܠܬ݂ܳܐ ܘܗܽܘ ܡܶܠܬ݂ܳܐ ܐܺܝܬ݂ܰܘܗ݈ܝ ܗ݈ܘܳܐ ܠܘܳܬ݂ ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ܘܰܐܠܳܗܳܐ ܐܺܝܬ݂ܰܘܗ݈ܝ ܗ݈ܘܳܐ ܗܽܘ ܡܶܠܬ݂ܳܐ ܀
Syriac transliteration brīšīṯ ʾiṯawhi milṯā, whu milṯā ʾiṯauhi hwā luaṯ ʾalāhā; wʾalāhā iṯauhi hwā hu milṯā
Sahidic Coptic ϨΝ ΤЄϨΟΥЄΙΤЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝϬΙΠϢΑϪЄ, ΑΥШ ΠϢΑϪЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝΝΑϨΡΜ ΠΝΟΥΤЄ. ΑΥШ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ
Coptic transliteration Hn teHoueite neFSoop nCi pSaJe auw pSaJe neFSoop nnaHrm pnoute auw neunoute pe pSaJe.[3]
Latin Vulgate In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum

Latin to English In beginning was Word and Word was beside (alongside) God and God was Word.
-------alternate Latin (beside: by, alongside, near, next to)

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Pleas substantiate it being "added"

John is the source

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Before I do - provide any evidence of an original early source of the entire gospel WITH the prologue

You say John is the source. Even your most diligent scholars question this and there are any number of guesses for the author.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

scholars question everything, that is why they are scholars. :smack

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

hmm, lawyers do that, too...

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

<grin> As the author is indicated as the "follower Jesus loved" AND the only male figure in the entire book who was specifically noted as the one Jesus loved was Lazarus (not John oops) it has been proposed by as least some scholars that this was the author.

No scholar (outside of Prax) 'declares' John as the author.

Prax well knows that there is no "original" gospel of John and certainly not a version WITH the prologue, which was actually an old hymn according to some which was attached to the gospel.

Hence the silence.

But we will see. Perhaps the requested information will turn up.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

:lol True

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Theories and speculation. is that all you got?
scholar theories are a dime a dozen.
pretty flimsy if you ask me. :blah

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

No. Actually the reverse is true. Theories and speculation is actually all you 'got'. Which is why, under scrutiny, your message is flimsy.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Original? Provide for me the original Quran. That's an absurd request. The gospel was written in the first century and from there copied over and over. Demanding I provide the original is just an absurd way of getting out of answering the question

This is from my notes for a NT survey

A. Who Wrote John?
1. Church tradition since the 2nd century names John, son of Zebedee and brother of James as the author.
2. It’s believed John is the one referred to as “beloved” (13:23; 18:15, 16; 19:26, 27).
3. The author is an eye witness, Jn 19:35
4. Internal Evidence
a. the author knew Jewish teachings and rituals and shared their OT world view[1]
b.the author knew Palestine and Jerusalem in their pre-a.d. 70 condition [2]
c. the author claims to be an eyewitness ( 1:14 , 19:35, 21:24)
d.the author was a member of the apostolic group, for he is familiar with[3]
1) details of time and place (the night trials)
2) details of numbers (water pots of 2:6 and fish of 21:11) [4]
3) details of persons
4) details of events and the reaction to them
5) the author seems to be designated as “the beloved disciple”[5]
e.the author seems to be a member of the inner circle along with Peter [6]
1) Jn 13:24, 20:2, 21:7
f. the name John, son of Zebedee, never appears in this Gospel, which seems highly unusual because he was a member of the Apostolic inner circle[7]
5. External Evidence, attributed to John
a. Irenaeus (a.d. 120–202) “John the disciple of the Lord who reclined on His breast and himself issued the Gospel at Ephesus in Asia” [8]
b.Clement of Alexandria (a.d. 153–217) — “John who was urged by his friends and divinely moved by the Spirit, composed a spiritual Gospel”[9]
c. Justin Martyr (a.d. 110–165)
d.Tertullian (a.d. 145–220)
e.Polycarp (a.d. 70–156
f. Papias (a.d. 70–146

[1] Utley, R. J. (2000). New Testament Survey: Matthew–Revelation (27). Marshall, Texas: Bible Lessons International.


Lastly, each gospel began "The gospel of" and in this case "the gospel of John"

So your evidence Jn 1:1 was added?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Joh 11:5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

Joh 13:23 One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was reclining at table close to Jesus,
Joh 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
Joh 19:27 Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
Joh 20:2 So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him."
Joh 21:7 That disciple whom Jesus loved therefore said to Peter, "It is the Lord!" When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he was stripped for work, and threw himself into the sea.
Joh 21:20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who had been reclining at table close to him and had said, "Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?"

Scholars.

Notes for 13:23

55 sn Here for the first time the one Jesus loved, the ‘beloved disciple,’ is introduced. This individual also is mentioned in 19:26, 20:2, 21:7, and 21:20. Some have suggested that this disciple is to be identified with Lazarus, since the Fourth Gospel specifically states that Jesus loved him (11:3, 5, 36). From the terminology alone this is a possibility; the author is certainly capable of using language in this way to indicate connections.

But there is nothing else to indicate that Lazarus was present at the last supper; Mark 14:17 seems to indicate it was only the twelve who were with Jesus at this time, and there is no indication in the Fourth Gospel to the contrary. Nor does it appear that Lazarus ever stood so close to Jesus as the later references in chaps. 19, 20 and 21 seem to indicate. When this is coupled with the omission of all references to John son of Zebedee from the Fourth Gospel, it seems far more likely that the references to the beloved disciple should be understood as references to him.
Biblical Studies Press. (2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (Jn 13:23). Biblical Studies Press.

Whom Jesus loved (ὁν ἠγαπα Ἰησους [hon ēgapa Iēsous]). Imperfect active of ἀγαπαω [agapaō], John’s description of himself of which he was proud (19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20), identified in 21:24 as the author of the book and necessarily one of the twelve because of the “explicit” (Bernard) language of Mark (14:17=Luke 22:14). John son of Zebedee and brother of James. At the table John was on the right of Jesus lying obliquely so that his head lay on the bosom of Jesus.
Robertson, A. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Jn 13:23). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.

Really? Let's see if the following declare John is the gospel


Authorship and Date. The authorship of the Gospel of John has been traditionally ascribed to the apostle John, the son of Zebedee and the brother of James. The Gospel itself, however, does not put forth the author’s name (which has made the authorship of John a much-debated issue among interpreters).

The only reference to the author is the “disciple whom Jesus loved” (21:20, 24). The apostle John is usually seen as the author because the Gospel exhibits many marks that intimate it was written by one who was an eyewitness to the life and ministry of Jesus, such as the aroma of the broken perfume jar in the house at Bethany (12:3).

Even individuals who were anonymous in the Synoptics are given names in John’s Gospel (6:7–8; 12:3; 18:10). Many other aspects of the Gospel point toward the apostle John. Examples are the author’s knowledge of Palestinian geography, Jewish customs, and the author’s inclusion within the inner circle of disciples (listed by the Synoptic Gospels as Peter, James, and John). Writers in the earliest periods of Christian history, such as Irenaeus and Tertullian, also attribute the Gospel to the apostle John.

Who was John the apostle? John was “the disciple whom Jesus loved” (13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20, 24). John’s brother was James, and together they were called the “sons of thunder” by Jesus (Mark 3:17). John’s mother was Salome, who served Jesus in Galilee and later witnessed His crucifixion (Mark 15:40–41). Formerly a follower of John the Baptist, the apostle John was perhaps only twenty-five years of age when called to be a follower of Christ.

Beyond this Gospel, John has been traditionally understood to have written the three epistles bearing his name as well as the Book of Revelation. After Christ ascended to heaven, John became one of the principal figures of the church at Jerusalem, along with Peter and James (Acts 3:1; 8:14; Gal. 2:9). Second only to the apostle Paul in the number of books written that are included in the New Testament canon, John served as the pastor of the church at Ephesus. The emperor Domitian later exiled him to Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation (Rev. 1:9). Most interpreters have concluded that John’s was the last of the four Gospels to be written, most likely between A.D. 60 and 95.
White, J. E. (1998). John. In D. S. Dockery (Ed.), Holman concise Bible commentary (D. S. Dockery, Ed.) (463). Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers.

In the light of this patristic witness a few conservative scholars still affirm the Apostle John as this Gospel’s author (e.g. Morris, 1972; cf. Tasker, 1960). More commonly they defend the idea that he was the fountainhead of a tradition culminating in the Gospel (Carson, 1991), a view advocated also by Brown (1966) and Schnackenburg (1968) in their commentaries, though both later changed their minds. However, the majority of recent scholars reject even this possibility, for a variety of reasons.
Edwards, R. (2003). Discovering John (22). London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge.

AUTHOR

First John is anonymous, though the early church consistently ascribed it (as well as 2 and 3 Jn) to the Apostle John. The early church never suggested anyone else as its author. Evidence of John’s authorship is strong and consistent, with these as some of the key facts to remember: (1) The author claimed to be an eyewitness of Jesus (1:1–3). (2) First John displays numerous similarities with the Gospel of John in terms of theology, vocabulary, and syntax. (3) Early church leaders Papias, Polycarp, Irenaeus, and Clement of Alexandria all affirmed John the apostle as the author.

In both 2 and 3 John, the author identified himself as “the Elder,” and tradition affirms this to be John the apostle, the same person who wrote the first letter of John. Indeed, the obvious similarities in vocabulary, theme, and language have led most modern scholars to argue for common authorship of these three letters, even if they reject the Apostle John as that author. However, the writing style in the two smaller letters is so similar to that of 1 John and the Gospel of John as to assure common authorship.
Cabal, T., Brand, C. O., Clendenen, E. R., Copan, P., Moreland, J., & Powell, D. (2007). The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith (1863). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

I can quote more authors if you need it

What ancient MSS don't have the prologue?

Does it make sense that a letter would NOT have a prologue? That contradicts the normative writing style of the day. Every letter has a prologue. That is may have been hymnal is irrelevant. The bible is full of figures of speech or literary devices that reflect the culture of the day or a normative pattern of the people who represented the genre. See other books of the bible and how they contained songs or what appears as songs or something poetic.

What silence?

Were you seriously saying my silence? You need some patience.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Except that I asked you to substantiate your assertion and you would not (or could not) but instead resorted to a logical fallacy of shifting the burden or proof.

So I ask again, please prove your assertion that Jn 1 was added

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Burden of proof is dumb.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

John 1 was added? This is the recourse folks eventually must take about the issue of Jesus' deity. In effect, they are saying that the Bible as it is written for us DOES INDEED propose His deity. So they have to say things were added to maintain He has no deity.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

One word...

Theosis.

Christ being the first fruit, the first born, of all creation. God will one day be the "all in all".

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Thought this was interesting.

Walid Shoebat and David Hunt tell how ‘Allah’ became the god of Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cIGsrif1ic

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

God is the only Savior and redeemer...

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (KJV)

God of the OT speaks...

Isa 48:12-16
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

The man Christ Jesus (the human vessel of God Himself) speaks:

Rev 22:13
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (KJV)

Christ is, "God with us"...

Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (KJV)

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)

His blood is called the blood of God...

Acts 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (KJV)

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

I believe that there is only one God. One divine being and person. And this God chose to create a human being, a Son, after His only image and likeness in the womb of a virgin named Mary. There, in the womb of Mary, God combined His own being with that human being. The two are therefore one, distinct, yet not separate. Each partakes in all that the other is. They are... one.

As I said before...

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from Him. Something emanating from the core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation, speaking to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

You vs you.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

What is the difference between the Word and the Word of God?