Apostolic Friends Forum - Jesus....Not God?

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Re: Jesus....Not God?

Sean, you gotta know Christ...'pre-existed?' There is in fact a quote for that (which you are free to interpret your own way). Heck, you pre-existed! i'm pretty sure...ok, and that green is impossible to read, ty.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabby (Post 1316849)

Thanks, Aquila, for succincly describing the Lord of the Universe!

I've been doing some reading about Jesus' divinity lately, including a book called, "When Jesus Became God". This well- researched historical book is interesting. I have to keep in mind that a skeptical Jew wrote it.

Interesting, I'll have to check it out.

Quote:

Sean, if Christ did not have two natures, then why did he fall asleep on the boat, get hungry in the wilderness or weep at Lazarus' tomb? Was he only demonstrating human weakness - was it an act - for the benefit of his followers? I'm curious as to how you have come to your conclusions.

To say that it was an "act" would be to say that what we saw of Him was merely a performance wherein He pretended to be human, pretended to pray, etc. For me, that's an unacceptable conclusion.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1316859)

Sean, if Christ did not have two natures, then why did he fall asleep on the boat, get hungry in the wilderness or weep at Lazarus' tomb? Was he only demonstrating human weakness - was it an act - for the benefit of his followers? I'm curious as to how you have come to your conclusions.QUOTE

Brother, it was not, in my point of view, 2 natures, no more than WE have 2 natures.

Jesus was as human as we are right here and now.
Our brethren have said that Jesus WAS a God/man. Its right in our book of doctrines.
If that is true, when Jesus was born, God had a placenta.....LOL

One thing I admonish the brethren is to leave no stones unturned in your mind about the oneness theology you teach. If someone brings up a tough question. figure it out and deal with it the best you can. Everyone has a little different(slight variations) idea of oneness theology in our movement. If we were not allowed that, and we were just supposed to "parrot" the organizations' position, we would be trapped in situation of possible heresy in some cases with no way out.

Also , if Prax tries to pin this misrepresentation of a "Unitarian" label on me again, I will spread it all over the AFF that he is a "closet" Giants' fan...LOL

We who are born again DO have two natures. We have the very Spirit of God residing in us, we become one spirit with the Lord, and we partake in His nature.

John 14:20
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

2 Peter 1:4
by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature,

Christ had two natures from conception. Through Christ, God revealed Himself perfectly. Now, we have two natures... His nature abiding in our inner man (our spirit) and our still corrupted human nature. This is why we must renew our mind and discipline our flesh. We do this to align ourselves with the inner reality of Him abiding in us. We align our natures.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Did the man Jesus Christ have a human soul (mind, will, emotion) that was distinct from the Father's and existed in an I/thou relationship with the Father? I say yes.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1316967)

Sorry about the green, the post was too long and i was trying to make it not blend...LOL

I will be glad to talk to you about the preexistence stuff, if you post your clarification of what you mean.

This is great BTW, On AFF I get to "test" my beliefs with intelligent brothers. I began to stray from the herd just slightly a decade or so ago. But I still believe almost all UPC doctrines. And my lifetime friends are involved in it. Thank you for debating me, I wish bro. Seagraves or Bernard would do this.
I highly respect all that are involved here.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1316974)

We who are born again DO have two natures. We have the very Spirit of God residing in us, we become one spirit with the Lord, and we partake in His nature.

John 14:20
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

2 Peter 1:4
by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature,

Thank you brother for getting involved here. I totally agree with you here and that Jesus had a "divine nature" so to speak. However, the "divine nature" that Jesus had was actually the HOLY GHOST (Luke 4:1), same as US, when we were adopted, we received the Holy Ghost and became "possessed" of God.

All I simply teach is Jesus was totally Human and was filled with the Holy Ghost(the Spirit of the Father)...Thats it.... It is the least complicated approach to the Godhead that I have seen yet.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1316975)

Did the man Jesus Christ have a human soul (mind, will, emotion) that was distinct from the Father's and existed in an I/thou relationship with the Father? I say yes.

Absolutely, positively...YES. Also, having a will of his own, he could have sinned if he chose to. (but he did not). The Holy Ghost "helped him do all that he had to do in his life to get him to the cross and when the sins of the world permeated him(he BECAME sin for us), the Holy Ghost left Him to die(the Father forsook the son).

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Guys, if you dont mind, lets keep these posts small like this. I can do this and leave to do other things I must do. The big one tied me to the computer for hours yesterday. I am in no hurry to answer or ask questions from day to day. Thanks for your consideration.

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1316982)

So far, we agree with quite a bit.

Now, while this might complicate matters, I want to bring up a text...

Hebrews 1:2-3
King James Version (KJV)
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Here, the writer of Hebrews touches on a lot. But the one thing I want to focus on is where the writer states that the Son of God (the man Christ Jesus) was the "express image" of God's own person. I contend that this means that while Jesus was truly a distinct and authentic human being indwelt by the Father... the man Jesus Christ was the express image of the Father's own person. In other words... He is what the Father would be... IF the Father were to have been merely a man. Therefore, while one can argue that the man Jesus Christ is a distinct human person from the indwelling Father... the Son's very own person reflects the person of the Father. As a result... only one person is revealed... the Father. One reality being the Father in His natural divine state. The other reality being a man who is all that the Father would be if He were merely a man.

Like Father... like Son.

Thoughts?

Re: Jesus....Not God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1316929)

No doubt. His claims are

Jesus from birth to death was only a man
Jesus after the resurrection was god
Jesus preexisted
And more....

All this doesn't make sense to me either

I'm sorry Sean, i misread. You never claimed Jesus prexisted. Instead u claimed he did not prexist.