Apostolic Friends Forum - Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

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Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 1051628)

Why hasn't the thief on the cross been mentioned yet? Whenever someone points to him, someone else says "Oh, but that was under the old covenant!" In other words, yeah, the old covenant was easier than the new one.

:popcorn2

Dispensationalism.

:vomit

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1051627)

I've read, studied and continue to read all those passages you've referenced.

Paul's word pictures, illustrations, articulations of what the rites of baptism are, etc are beautiful and meaningful. To interpret them literally ("baptism saves us") is irresponsible and doesn't even represent Paul's soteriology. Most of Paul's comments on baptism also aren't even about baptism, but about the believer's right living. We have new identities. We are new creatures, etc... To illustrate that point, he shows the picture of baptism.
That the Holy Spirit is the downpayment, that the Spirit of Christ must be in us is also, of course, accepted (great thread on that here called "Spirit and Salvation") --- but Apos have a tendency to see the word "Spirit" and immediately think of snotting, crying and tongues. Spirit-in-the-Box I call it.

The fact is, the Spirit draws us to Him, helps us believe, indwells us, equips us for mission, makes intercession for us, bears witness for us, gifts us, seals us, and one day will resurrect us. There are so many ways the Spirit is active in the believer's life.

Thats exactly what God has shown me. The Spirit is active is repentance, baptism, and the infilling. Acts 2:38 is as much the work of the Spirit as it is our response.

The italics above shows what Paul believed regarding what baptism does. It does put us into Christ's death, does help us die to our sin nature. Thats the dogma the institutional church has used for centuries until certain Protestant groups began questioning whether Romans 6 is allegorical or not or even if its talking about water baptism.

Because we are baptized and have faith, this is what Christ does for us, changes us, makes us new, etc. It isn't the rite of baptism itself, its the response to God's word that changes us. God selected baptism as a rite that we obey. Its that simple.

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1051635)

Dispensationalism.

:vomit

Were sins forgiven through animal sacrifices, in OT times?

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1051633)

Let's put it this way: Why did God elect Israel, separate them and call them to be His people?

(BTW, eternal life, rescue from death is different than "to spend forever in Heaven" -- I don't think your answer is wrong, I just don't think it's complete)

Because of the response of Abraham, the Father of faith to believe the promises of God. That is why the convenant was formed. God desired a relationship with his creation that was broken by sin. Abraham was willing to believe God in a pagan land and accept his promises.

Then God and Abraham made an agreement, a covenant, that his people would be blessed and that they would follow God in all they do.

Eternal life is different to spending eternity with Jesus? Please do tell. I need to hear a different opinion about eternal life.

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Why did God save us?

1) He's faithful, generous, loving and pursuing (His Character)
2) To join him in His plan to bring redemption to the earth
3) To share his name among the nations
4) To free us from death, giving us eternal life -- redeeming us with His image, bought by his blood.
5) To honor the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross
6) To bring us back into fellowship with Him

“I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” John 12:46: “I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.”

“I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 1051628)

This argument is full of holes IMO. When did the thief have time to obey all the commandments? No he was born again, justified, accepted into the kingdom of God by the word of Christ. God knew he would be baptized, tarry for the SPirit, all the things one would do if he had the chance. thats obvious.

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2 (Post 1051615)

How does this transformation take place? Magically? At the moment you believe? When you are baptized? These questions are answered in the BIble, if we would read them.

I Peter 1' 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and adideth for ever. That takes place the moment that a sinner repents by faith under the power of the Holy Ghost drawing him. Jesus said;
John 6; 44, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:39,And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
VERSE 39, And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2 (Post 1051643)

But Why did God choose Abraham? Is that given to us in the Story? (nodding)

When people say heaven, they are usually thinking of this special place, not relationship. Like, I'm living as a good boy so one day he will beam me up.

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1051645)

All that leads to spending eternity with Him. That eternity begins when we convert. All of what you said are supporting to the main thing.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life

Re: Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite (Post 1051648)

People's opinions do not change the ultimate goal for God and for us. Relationship is required to get there. God desires relationship with us, both here and there. That the goal of relationship is to lead us to the promised land.