Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

It should be obvious. What is Alpha and Omega, anyway?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Where do you get "the alpha and omega". The scripture leaves off the uniqueness of "the". The scripture says "I am alpha and omega" not "I am THE alpha and omega"

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Sounds more like a greek idiom that meant sometime to people of one particular time and culture but has sense lost its meaning.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Jfrog says I am a white man and an american. Mfblume says I am a white man. Since mfblume said he was a white man and since a white man is an american then logically mfblume must be an american.... That's what your saying. The reason my logic above fails is because there is more than one white man. Being a white man is not a unique characteristic. You understand? Until you can show that being alpha and omega is a unique characteristic then your logic falls just as flat as mine above.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Revelations 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

This verse speaks of the same person who said in Revelation 1:11

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

And who said in Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

This same one who is alpha and omega who lives and was dead also is called the beginning of the creation of God. How can you claim "the beginning of the creation of God is the almighty?" How can you say the created is the creator?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Me: So if the message was given by God to Jesus who said it and was given by Jesus to an angel who also said it then either both are Alpha and Omega or both were delivering a message from God. I told you back in the first post that Jesus is a messenger and prophet and gave about 10 references to this then told you that Jesus was delivering a message from God in chapter 1 just like the angel was delivering a message that God gave to Jesus and Jesus sent by angel in chapter 22, all nicely explained in Rev 1:1.

You: Two Alpha and Omegas? Two everythings? Two sum totals? You believe in more than One God

Is this the kind of piercing logic you peddle for $10 on that website of yours? I have some breaking news for you. See below.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

A couple of dead Greek letters friend. If your entire belief system is based on this while ignoring direct descriptions that place Jesus in one place (near God) and God in a completely different place (descriptions that place Jesus exactly where Jesus himself said he would be) the panic you seem to demonstrate while begging someone else to just "believe this as I do" is probably warranted. I was waiting for you to come up with something else but you seem stuck so I'll help you out.

What you do not seem to know is this:

Several later manuscripts repeat "I am the Alpha and Omega" in 1v11 too, but it does not receive support here from most of the oldest manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus

I truly hope that your entire belief system does not rest on these words supposedly "stated by Jesus" that do not actually exist in the original manuscripts. If you reference the original manuscripts, it is actually your argument and not mine that falls flat. Remove these words from 1:11 - my position stands, what happens to yours?

But you knew that, because you get paid to know that - right? Me - if I bought your teaching I'd be asking for my money back. Go back to Rev 22 and read what happens to those who change even a word of that book?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Except the original manuscripts of Verse 11 don't say "alpha and omega" and I already knew that but you don't.

So you really need, as I told you days ago, to find another book besides Revelation to make your point.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

Here you are OH Profit of Gospel - do your A/B/C logic on the corrected chapter based on earlier versions of Revelation:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...01&version=NIV

1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” (no Almighty, no Alpha, no Omega, no ABC)
12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.
20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[e] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

OOPS huh? Kindly share your next point, thanks. Don't say I didn't warn you though.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?
 

1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” 33 says the Lord God – the one who is, and who was, and who is still to come – the All-Powerful! 34

33 tc The shorter reading “Omega” (ὦ, w) has superior ms evidence ({א1 A C 1611}) to the longer reading which includes “the beginning and the end” (ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος or ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος, arch kai telo" or Jh arch kai to telo"), found in א*,2 1854 2050 2329 2351 ÏA lat bo. There is little reason why a scribe would have deleted the words, but their clarifying value and the fact that they harmonize with 21:6 indicate that they are a secondary addition to the text.

34 tn On this word BDAG 755 s.v. παντοκράτωρ states, “the Almighty, All-Powerful, Omnipotent (One) only of God…(ὁ) κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ π. …Rv 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7; 21:22.”

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Revelation+1