Apostolic Friends Forum - Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

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Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog (Post 1313229)

My God! you were right.
Revelation 22

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his (Gods) commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

***It's also very strange reading this passage in a red letter king james version because there are red letter from verse 7 to 16 but verses 8-11 are removed even though it's clear the speaker has not changed...

No, that is incorrect. Jesus is disttinguished FROM THE ANGEL as follows:

Rev 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

THE ANGEL QUOTED JESUS.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1313486)

The bible. It's the only conclusion we can get from the bible when we read He is the Almighty as well as the one who died and is alive.

Post all the scriptures that you say, say...Jesus the man is God.

Then we will discuss them one by one.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJManzell (Post 1313489)

Post all the scriptures that you say, say...Jesus the man is God.

Then we will discuss them one by one.

Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1313490)

You are saying, that these verses from the bible are saying
that Jesus is the Word? True or false?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJManzell (Post 1313506)

You are saying, that these verses from the bible are saying
that Jesus is the Word? True or false?

Of course. You are saying the WORD that was made flesh was not Jesus?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1313146)

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

I am busy. We are returning to Saudi shortly however I will answer your post.

The famous passage: John 10:30.

What does ONE (Greek word HEN) mean?

John 11

52 and not for the nation only, but that also the children of God, who have been scattered abroad, he may gather together into one. If this word word (HEN - ONE) means what you say it means then that means that somehow the people of God are all the same individual. It does not.

John 17: (Interestingly enough, Jesus who you say is proven to be God in the book of John, is praying to God in John 17 but not a one of you have ever explained this or brought this up)

11 and no more am I in the world, and these are in the world, and I come unto Thee. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, that they may be one as we

Same word - HEN - ONE - does NOT mean that each disciple is the same as the other disciple. It is used to show sameness in purpose/beliefs/feelings/goals (which I believe we all agree that Jesus was same in purpose with God)

Again in John 17 - here Jesus himself explains what (HEN - ONE) means which is much closer to what I believe it means than what you believe it means:

21 that they all may be one, as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me. ONE in US? The disciples were gods also? By your logic they are (speaking of peril yah? but by mine they are not)

22 `And I, the glory that thou hast given to me, have given to them, that they may be one as we are one;

23 I in them, and Thou in me, that they may be perfected into one, and that the world may know that Thou didst send me, and didst love them as Thou didst love me.

Summary:

"I and my father are one" does not mean that they are the same entity. It means that they are two different distinct entities with completely common goals and purposes - this does not make Jesus God any more than becoming ONE makes the disciples Peter the same as the Disciple John.

Another example: 1 Cor 6:16

16 have ye not known that he who is joined to the harlot is one body? `for they shall be -- saith He -- the two for one flesh.'

17 And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;

Being joined as ONE to your wife which is the reference here does not make you a wife any more than being joined as ONE to God makes you a god.

With that said I believe I saw you post He will judge all men

Not what your book says. Book says many will judge. I will let you find the passages because I think you (not just you, all of you) need to study it more.

Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years

Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

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Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1313201)

You totally miss the concept of God being able to manifest in flesh as a man with self-limited abilities. No wonder you do not believe oneness. You do not understand it.

Probably because your book really does not say it. In fact, it specifically states the opposite.

I thought you left. Next time you come back, quote some verses. Surely there are some that support your "opinion"

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1313102)

The "peace" being referred to is His Spirit/Comforter which was promised under the New Covenant. The Spirit is likened to a "dove", which is a symbol of "peace".

"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27

They didn't quite understand Him while He was alive, but understood more after His death.

When Jesus speaks, you must search out why He says what He says. For instance, in John 14:1, Jesus says, "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me."

He isn't making a division here because, in verse 9 He is responding to Phillip, "...he that has seen/clearly discerned me, has seen/clearly discerned the father...

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

If they didn't quite understand Isaiah 9:6, they would later on the Day of Pentecost.

Jesus says in John 14:16, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter..."

Again, no division here as we read John 15:26, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you..."

He is our peace, our Comforter/Advocate/Counselor, our Father, our God, our Saviour.

If He "hung the earth upon nothing" Job 26:7, why would it be hard to understand that He can be all in all?

We were discussing Isaiah. It was claimed to be "fulfilled"

Here is what it says: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever"

I asked - where is the kingdom, peace, and government?

I answered - it is in the future. Summary: These passages are not fulfilled and no possible combination of completely unrelated passages will ever convince even the most unlearned that they are

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1313488)

No, that is incorrect. Jesus is disttinguished FROM THE ANGEL as follows:

Rev 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

THE ANGEL QUOTED JESUS.

Seems your needle just jumps all over your record doesn't it. Thought you left. Welcome back

Re: Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam (Post 1313867)

You avoided my point, so why deal with more?