The Margaret MacDonald Hoax

[Truth Files]

The claim that Darby borrowed Margaret MacDonald's contrived "vision" to support His pre-tribulation "rapture" view is a hoax

This ruse is actually based upon a false reading of the vision by those who want to use it for discrediting the pre-tribulation view

The vision obviously has the church going thru the tribulation period, so the game changers must rely upon the ignorance of those who buy their story

This is a pathetic manipulation of fact for the purpose of fooling those unaware of the hobgoblin that has been concocted

Here is the related part of the vision [the full vision can be accessed on the Internet]:

"I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that it it were possible the very elect will be deceived - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will he shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - but the trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold."

[commonsense]

I'd never heard this before. Who follows the visions viewpoint?

[Truth Files]

There are a number of preterist and post-tribulation teachers of Bible prophecy who use this vision for the purpose of supporting their false ideas

They claim that the vision has been used by those who teach pre-tribulation, pre-millennial, dispensational, futurist interpretation of the prophetic scriptures as a basis for support

This whole idea has no rational application, but just a ruse used in order to mislead their followers with a fabricated story .... the vision actually has the church experiencing a future tribulation for "purification"

You can find those who have done this on the Internet .... look for those who teach preterism, post-tribulation, and a-millennial views and you will find many of them who use this hoax .... other hallmarks of these teachers are various forms of "kingdom now" and "replacement" [the Lord is finished with Israel/the church has become Israel] theologies

[Lafon]

TF, seeing that the proponents of "Pre-tribulation Rapturism" interpret Paul's writings of I Thessalonians 4:13-17 as the basis for their beliefs (a view which you apparently embrace as truth), then could you explain this statement which he penned --

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." (I Thessalonians 4:15)

Where is it found within the gospel recordings of Jesus' expressions (i.e., "the word of the Lord") that He made this same statement? Surely Paul would not have written something for which he could not support by fact, right?

Secondly, seeing that the words of Psalm 145:17 explicitly state that everything which God does is accomplished in accordance with "righteousness" (i.e., equality of justice/judgment), then how is it that He would (as taught by the adherents of "Pre-tribulation Rapturism") violate this guiding principle by granting an exception/exemption from the judgment of death to an unspecified number of saints who would be "living" upon the earth at the coming appearance of Christ Jesus?

Please note -- I am not an adherent of ANY rapturist teachings, rather I believe in a resurrection of the righteous dead at the 2nd coming of the Son of man (an event which I believe will transpire at the end of the coming era of Satan's reign of wrath upon the earth at the end of the present period of God's dealing with mankind).

Would you be so kind to respond to these two issues?

Regards

[Truth Files]

Lafon,

I will respond .... hold on

[Sister Alvear]

TF ..are you saying those that believe the church will go through tribulation use Darby borrowed Margaret MacDonald's writings? I have heard people use the writings for just the opposite...I have not read enough of your posts...to know exactly what you believe...could you explain what camp you belong to.

[Truth Files]

Lafon asked:

"Would you be so kind to respond to these two issues?"

My answer to you is based upon the belief that the Bible is the fully accurate and completed Word of the living God and that Jesus Christ is the Author of all biblical prophecy via His prophets

So there is no question as far as I am concerned related to the authenticity of Paul’s mystery revealing in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; he received the information from the Lord’s own conveyance

The same is also repeated in 1Corinhthians 15:22-58

The purpose of the event to directly immortalize those living at the time of His future “harpazo” action is clearly stated in 1Thessalonians 5:1-9; and Revelation 3:10

One must take into account several passages of scripture [not just one or two; there are a number of them] for obtaining the completed and correct rendering of His intent to immortalize believers, both those asleep and those living, at the same moment just before He brings His wrath and judgment against an unbelieving intransigent world

The proof of this action is given in Revelation’s unfolding by presenting the immortal pre-tribulation church as those who are dwelling in heaven with the Lord just before and during the coming tribulation period who will return to the earth with Him to contend with Satan’s beast and followers at Armageddon [4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones] ]

I would also suggest that you do a search on “sleep” related to humans who have left the physical body in conjunction with the study; there are a number of good search engines available on the Internet that can be used to do this quickly

This understanding of what happens to one who dies physically before the Lord’s scheduled resurrection events which are all still future at this time take place

[Truth Files]

Sister A,

I would suggest that you take a look at my response to Lafon above

I do not believe that today's church [living believers at the time] will experience the coming tribulation period

[mfblume]

What preterists spoke of Darby and MacDonald? I see post tribbers do that.

I for one never said anything about Darby getting his thoughts from Margaret MacDonald.

Whatever... lol

But look what a trinitarian pre-trib preacher said about the pre-trib rapture and the trinity:

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...80&postcount=1

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...82&postcount=2

[Truth Files]

"What preterists spoke of Darby and MacDonald? I see post tribbers do that"

Examples:

Ken Gentry [preterist]

David MacPherson [post-tribulation]


There are many of both persuasions with variations of the same false teaching .... Gentry actually teaches a mixed bag of both

These new aberrant modified slants with similar objectives are the most popular today and growing .... one would expect this as the world moves closer to the Lord's coming intervention