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Old 07-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Kim Komando Kim Komando is offline
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Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

Papabear said:
Quote:
final note before leaving for I have things to do.

I am thankful for a wife that is willing to live and submit to these ideals that her pastor and mother taught her. If she was unwilling to follow that in her own devotion, If I were to continue pastoring, I would be to some degree have to figure out a way to ... justify what she is unwilling to do.

I say that because I know some preachers have compromised ... not because they believed it different but sister was unwilling to obey the scripture and had been incited to doubt and refuse for whatever reason and brother pastor must find a loophole in scripture to support his/her disobedience and or compromise.

I recognize the human reality in all this. I believe and hope for the ideal. I believe when perfection ceases to be our goal, we will attain to much less than God intended for us.
Have you considered the flip side to your conspiracy theory, Pastor Phillips? I have no doubt that there are many women in the holiness movement that have deep convictions and are well-rooted in their beliefs that a woman must wear ankle high dresses, wear uncut hair and not wear any cosmetics.

Yet, from my experience I have seen some of the fiercest, pugnacious female defenders of holiness standards not have a clue theologically about why they do what they do yet can mercilessly tear down anyone who does not as much look the way they do.

Often, these women will remark that they are submissive to their husbands - and that's why they do what they do. And often times I find their husbands to be extremely domineering and because they are concerned what their peers will think they argue incessantly, and maybe even abusively, with their wives if they as much as wear blush or have a slit in their skirt.

Or perhaps it can be a spiritually abusive pastor who takes this role? Or maybe the result of repetitious, dogmatic teaching that seeks to cause unhealthy amounts of guilt and shame? Or maybe it's theological illiteracy coupled with the innate human desire to belong?

And so maybe, Papabear, what we often mistake as willing submission is what some describe as Stockholm Syndrome. SS is described by Wiki as follows:
Quote:
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in abducted hostages, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger or risk in which they have been placed. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg in Stockholm, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal.
You may remember the Patty Hearst story?

You know - the millionaire heiress Patty Hearst was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army. After two months in captivity, she actively took part in a robbery they were orchestrating. Her unsuccessful legal defense was that she suffered from Stockholm syndrome and was coerced into aiding the SLA. She was convicted and imprisoned for her actions in the robbery, though her sentence was commuted in February 1979 by President Jimmy Carter, and she received a Presidential pardon from Bill Clinton.

You see Papabear, group dynamics can be very powerful and often when a person cannot beat them, they join them. It's a defense mechanism called identification.

The defense mechanism identification is described as:

Quote:
The unconscious modeling of one's self upon another person. One may also identify with values and attitudes of a group. Examples: (1) without being aware that he is copying his teacher, a resident physician assumes a similar mode of dress and manner with patients. (2) a school girl wants her mother to buy her the same kind of shoes her classmates are wearing; she angrily rejects the idea that she is trying to be like the other girls and insists that the shoes are truly the best available and are the style she has always wanted. Conscious analogs of identification are intentional imitation of others and volitional efforts to conform to a group
So, maybe. Just maybe? It's Stockholm Syndrome that we misinterpret in some Apostolic women as zeal for Holiness?

According to the psychoanalytic view of the syndrome, the tendency might well be the result of employing the strategy evolved by newborn babies to form an emotional attachment to the nearest powerful adult in order to maximize the probability that this adult will enable — at the very least — the survival of the child, if not also prove to be a good parental figure. This syndrome is considered a prime example for the defense mechanism of identification (Wiki)


Last edited by Kim Komando; 07-08-2009 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:53 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

Is Patty Hurst wearing a skirt?
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:54 PM
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MrMasterMind MrMasterMind is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Is Patty Hurst wearing a skirt?
and long hair
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:58 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

But where is the joy of the Lord?
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:07 PM
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MrMasterMind MrMasterMind is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
But where is the joy of the Lord?
She is sad because she knows one mistake, one broken standard, and its lake of fire. Why? "Because pastor says so", and "that's the way we have always done it."

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Old 07-08-2009, 11:11 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

Quote:
I am thankful for a wife that is willing to live and submit to these ideals that her pastor and mother taught her. If she was unwilling to follow that in her own devotion, If I were to continue pastoring, I would be to some degree have to figure out a way to ... justify what she is unwilling to do.
When I read this line in the other thread, my first thought was "what if the pastors and husband have differing views?". Granted, that is an alien thought when it comes to many UC's, but still, it is scary to think of a husband "giving" his wife to his pastor. Natgeo did a couple of exposes on this sort of behavior when investigating "Michael" in New Mexico. I forget the name of the group. But the first show dwelved into their cult and Michaels prophecies (and how he claimed other members wifes as a sign of submission). The 2nd episode delt with his trial on molestation charges.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:20 PM
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Papabear Papabear is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

I have much I could say... but I will not.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:24 PM
Kim Komando Kim Komando is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

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Originally Posted by Papabear View Post
I have much I could say... but I will not.
Indulge us. This would make for great discussion on one of your 10 "Save the Apostolic Movement from My Fellow Card Holding False Prophets" Facebook groups - Would it not?

Last edited by Kim Komando; 07-08-2009 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:26 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

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Originally Posted by Kim Komando View Post
Indulge us. This would make for great discussion one of your 10 "Save the Apostolic Movement from My Fellow Card Holding False Prophets" Facebook groups - Would it not?
You remind me of someone who use to post here.
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To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:42 PM
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OnTheFritz OnTheFritz is offline
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Re: Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, Papabear?

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Originally Posted by Papabear View Post
I have much I could say... but I will not.
Does it happen to involve some of these women posters being out of line and not knowing their place...?

Ladies - did you check with your husbands before you posted here tonight???

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