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Old 01-14-2009, 03:31 PM
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The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

THE MOST FAMOUS CONVERSATION IN THE BIBLE
(From Max Lucado's 3:16: Numbers of Hope)

He’s waiting for the shadows. Darkness will afford the cover he covets. So he waits for the safety of nightfall. He sits near the second-floor window of his house, sipping olive-leaf tea, watching the sunset, and biding his time. Jerusalem enchants at this hour. The disappearing sunlight tints the stone streets, gilds the white houses, and highlights the blockish temple.
Nicodemus looks across the slate roofs at the massive square: gleaming and resplendent. He walked its courtyard this morning. He’ll do so again tomorrow. He’ll gather with religious leaders and do what religious leaders do: discuss God. Discuss reaching God, pleasing God, appeasing God.

God.

Pharisees converse about God. And Nicodemus sits among them. Debating. Pondering. Solving puzzles. Resolving dilemmas. Sandal-tying on the Sabbath. Feeding people who won’t work. Divorcing your wife. Dishonoring parents. What does God say? Nicodemus needs to know. It’s his job. He’s a holy man and leads holy men. His name appears on the elite list of Torah scholars. He dedicated his life to the law and occupies one of the seventy-one seats of the Judean supreme court. He has credentials, clout, and questions.

Questions for this Galilean crowd-stopper. This backwater teacher who lacks diplomas yet attracts people. Who has ample time for the happy-hour crowd but little time for clergy and the holy upper crust. He banishes demons, some say; forgives sin, others claim; purifies temples, Nicodemus has no doubt. He witnessed Jesus purge Solomon’s Porch.1 He saw the fury. Braided whip, flying doves. “There will be no pocket padding in my house!” Jesus erupted. By the time the dust settled and coins landed, hustling clerics were running a background check on him. The man from Nazareth won no favor in the temple that day.

So Nicodemus comes at night. His colleagues can’t know of the meeting. They wouldn’t understand. But Nicodemus can’t wait until they do. As the shadows darken the city, he steps out, slips unseen through the cobbled, winding streets. He passes servants lighting lamps in the courtyards and takes a path that ends at the door of a simple house. Jesus and his followers are staying here, he’s been told. Nicodemus knocks.

The noisy room silences as he enters. The men are wharf workers and tax collectors, unaccustomed to the highbrow world of a scholar. They shift in their seats. Jesus motions for the guest to sit. Nicodemus does and initiates the most famous conversation in the Bible: “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him” (John 3:2 NKJV).

Nicodemus begins with what he “knows.” I’ve done my homework, he implies. Your work impresses me.

We listen for a kindred salutation from Jesus: “And I’ve heard of you, Nicodemus.” We expect, and Nicodemus expected, some hospitable chitchat.

None comes. Jesus makes no mention of Nicodemus’s VIP status, good intentions, or academic credentials, not because they don’t exist, but because, in Jesus’s algorithm, they don’t matter. He simply issues this proclamation: “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (v. 3 NKJV).

Behold the Continental Divide of Scripture, the international date line of faith. Nicodemus stands on one side, Jesus on the other, and Christ pulls no punches about their differences.

Nicodemus inhabits a land of good efforts, sincere gestures, and hard work. Give God your best, his philosophy says, and God does the rest.
Jesus’s response? Your best won’t do. Your works don’t work. Your finest efforts don’t mean squat. Unless you are born again, you can’t even see what God is up to.

Nicodemus hesitates on behalf of us all. Born again? “How can a man be born when he is old?” (v. 4 NKJV). You must be kidding. Put life in reverse? Rewind the tape? Start all over? We can’t be born again.

Oh, but wouldn’t we like to? A do-over. A try-again. A reload. Broken hearts and missed opportunities bob in our wake. A mulligan would be nice. Who wouldn’t cherish a second shot? But who can pull it off? Nicodemus scratches his chin and chuckles. “Yeah, a graybeard like me gets a maternity-ward recall.”

Jesus doesn’t crack a smile. “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the 5 the most famous conversation in the bible kingdom of God” (v. 5 NKJV).

About this time a gust of wind blows a few leaves through the still-open door. Jesus picks one off the floor and holds it up. God’s power works like that wind, Jesus explains. Newborn hearts are born of heaven. You can’t wish, earn, or create one. New birth? Inconceivable. God handles the task, start to finish.

Nicodemus looks around the room at the followers. Their blank expressions betray equal bewilderment.

Old Nick has no hook upon which to hang such thoughts. He speaks self-fix. But Jesus speaks—indeed introduces—a different language. Not works born of men and women, but a work done by God.

Born again. Birth, by definition, is a passive act. The enwombed child contributes nothing to the delivery. Postpartum celebrations applaud the work of the mother. No one lionizes the infant. (“Great work there, little one.”) No, give the tyke a pacifier not a medal. Mom deserves the gold. She exerts the effort. She pushes, agonizes, and delivers.

When my niece bore her first child, she invited her brother and mother to stand in the delivery room. After witnessing three hours of pushing, when the baby finally crowned, my nephew turned to his mom and said, “I’m sorry for every time I talked back to you.”

The mother pays the price of birth. She doesn’t enlist the child’s assistance or solicit his or her advice. Why would she? The baby can’t even take a breath without umbilical help, much less navigate a path into new life. Nor, Jesus is saying, can we. Spiritual rebirthing requires a capable parent, not an able infant.


Who is this parent? Check the strategically selected word again. The Greek language offers two choices for again:
  • 1. Palin, which means a repetition of an act; to redo what was done earlier
  • 2. Anothen, which also depicts a repeated action, but requires the original source to repeat it. It means “from above, from a higher place, things which come from heaven or God.” In other words, the one who did the work the first time does it again. This is the word Jesus chose.
The difference between the two terms is the difference between a painting by da Vinci and one by me. Suppose you and I are standing in the Louvre, admiring the famous Mona Lisa. Inspired by the work, I produce an easel and canvas and announce, “I’m going to paint this beautiful portrait again.”

And I do! Right there in the Salle des Etats, I brandish my palette and flurry my brush and re-create the Mona Lisa. Alas, Lucado is no Leonardo. Ms. Lisa has a Picassoesque imbalance to her—crooked nose and one eye higher than the other. Technically, however, I keep my pledge and paint the Mona Lisa again.

Jesus means something else. He employs the second Greek term, calling for the action of the original source. He uses the word anothen, which, if honored in the Paris gallery, would require da Vinci’s presence. Anothen excludes:
  • Latter-day replicas.
  • Second-generation attempts.
  • Well-meaning imitations.
He who did it first must do it again. The original creator recreates his creation. This is the act that Jesus describes.
  • Born: God exerts the effort.
  • Again: God restores the beauty.
We don’t try again. We need, not the muscle of self, but a miracle of God.


The thought cold cocks Nicodemus. “How can this be?” (v. 9).

Jesus answers by leading him to the Hope diamond of the Bible.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A twenty-six-word parade of hope: beginning with God, ending with life, and urging us to do the same. Brief enough to write on a napkin or memorize in a moment, yet solid enough to weather two thousand years of storms and questions. If you know nothing of the Bible, start here. If you know everything in the Bible, return here. We all need the reminder. The heart of the human problem is the heart of the human. And God’s treatment is prescribed in John 3:16.
  • He loves.
  • He gave.
  • We believe.
  • We live.
The words are to Scripture what the Mississippi River is to America—an entryway into the heartland. Believe or dismiss them, embrace or reject them, any serious consideration of Christ must include them. Would a British historian dismiss the Magna Carta? Egyptologists overlook the Rosetta stone? Could you ponder the words of Christ and never immerse yourself into John 3:16?
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:32 PM
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Re: The most famous conversation in the bible

(cont.)

The verse is an alphabet of grace, a table of contents to the Christian hope, each word a safe-deposit box of jewels. Read it again, slowly and aloud, and note the word that snatches your attention. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

“God so loved the world...” We’d expect an anger-fueled God. One who punishes the world, recycles the world, forsakes the world... but loves the world?

The world? This world? Heartbreakers, hope-snatchers, and dream-dousers prowl this orb. Dictators rage. Abusers inflict. Reverends think they deserve the title. But God loves. And he loves the world so much he gave his:
  • Declarations?
  • Rules?
  • Dicta?
  • Edicts?
No. The heart-stilling, mind-bending, deal-making-or-breaking claim of John 3:16 is this: God gave his son... his only son. No abstract ideas but a flesh-wrapped divinity. Scripture equates Jesus with God. God, then, gave himself. Why? So that “whoever believes in him shall not perish.”

John Newton, who set faith to music in “Amazing Grace,” loved this barrier-breaking pronoun. He said, “If I read ‘God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that when John Newton believed he should have everlasting life,’ I should say, perhaps, there is some other John Newton; but ‘whosoever’ means this John Newton and the other John Newton, and everybody else, whatever his name may be.”
Whoever . . . a universal word.

And perish... a sobering word. We’d like to dilute, if not delete, the term. Not Jesus. He pounds Do Not Enter signs on every square inch of Satan’s gate and tells those hell-bent on entering to do so over his dead body. Even so, some souls insist.

In the end, some perish and some live. And what determines the difference? Not works or talents, pedigrees or possessions. Nicodemus had these in hoards. The difference is determined by our belief. “Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Bible translators in the New Hebrides islands struggled to find an appropriate verb for believe. This was a serious problem, as the word and the concept are essential to Scripture.

One Bible translator, John G. Paton, accidentally came upon a solution while hunting with a tribesman. The two men bagged a large deer and carried it on a pole along a steep mountain path to Paton’s home. When they reached the veranda, both men dropped the load and plopped into the porch chairs. As they did so, the native exclaimed in the language of his people, “My, it is good to stretch yourself out here and rest.” Paton immediately reached for paper and pencil and recorded the phrase.

As a result, his final translation of John 3:16 could be worded: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever stretcheth himself out on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Stretch out on Christ and rest.

Martin Luther did. When the great reformer was dying, severe headaches left him bedfast and pain struck. He was offered a medication to relieve the discomfort. He declined and explained, “My best prescription for head and heart is that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life

The best prescription for head and heart. Who couldn’t benefit from a dose? As things turned out, Nicodemus took his share. When Jesus was crucified, the theologian showed up with Joseph of Arimathea. The two offered their respects and oversaw Jesus’s burial. No small gesture, given the anti-Christ climate of the day. When word hit the streets that Jesus was out of the tomb and back on his feet, don’t you know Nicodemus smiled and thought of his late-night chat?

Born again, eh? Who would’ve thought he’d start with himself.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:39 PM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

BTW, no where does Jesus speak about baptism in this conversation ... but rather ... a Spirit birth from above.

He also tells Nic how he can be born again born from above (gennoa anothen) . And you got it ... it ain't 3 stepping.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:11 PM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

John chapter 3 is the original Nick at Night
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:25 PM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
BTW, no where does Jesus speak about baptism in this conversation ... but rather ... a Spirit birth from above.

He also tells Nic how he can be born again born from above (gennoa anothen) . And you got it ... it ain't 3 stepping.
This is the first time I've seen Max Lucado referenced as if he were a Bible scholar. Here's what a genuine scholar has to say:



Quote:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Be born of water] By "water," here, is evidently signified "baptism." Thus the word is used in Eph 5:26; Titus 3:5. Baptism was practiced by the Jews in receiving a Gentile as a proselyte. It was practiced by John among the Jews; and Jesus here says that it is an ordinance of his religion, and the sign and seal of the renewing influences of his Spirit. So he said (Mark 16:16), "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." It is clear from these places, and from the example of the apostles (Acts 2:38,41; 8:12-13,36,38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15,33; 18:8; 22:16; Gal 3:27), that they considered this ordinance as binding on all who professed to love the Lord Jesus. And though it cannot be said that none who are not baptized can be saved, yet Jesus meant, undoubtedly, to be understood as affirming that this was to be the regular and uniform way of entering into his church; that it was the appropriate mode of making a profession of religion; and that a man who neglected this, when the duty was made known to him, neglected a plain command of God. It is clear, also, that any other command of God might as well be neglected or violated as this, and that it is the duty of everyone not only to love the Saviour, but to make an acknowledgment of that love by being baptized, and by devoting himself thus to his service.

But, lest Nicodemus should suppose that this was all that was meant, he added that it was necessary that he should "be born of the Spirit" also. This was predicted of the Saviour, that he should "baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire," Matt 3:11. By this is clearly intended that the heart must be changed by the agency of the Holy Spirit; that the love of sin must be abandoned; that man must repent of crime and turn to God; that he must renounce all his evil propensities, and give himself to a life of prayer and holiness, of meekness, purity, and benevolence. This great change is in the Scripture ascribed uniformly to the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5; 1 Thess 1:6; Rom 5:5; 1 Peter 1:22.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:53 AM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

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Old 01-11-2010, 01:04 PM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

One of the factors that affects our view of just how and when a person is saved is our understanding of what the “water” is or of what the term “born of water” means in John 3:5.

For purposes of this post I am using the terms “born again” or “regenerated” and “saved” as being the same experience. This would be salvation according to the way I understand that it is presented in our New Testament. I’m using it in the sense that we have been saved from sin and we are currently saved. I am not using it in the sense that our salvation will not actually be completed until we are resurrected incorruptible and immortal.

There are not a whole lot of references to being born again in the Bible that I can think of right now. The primary passage is John 3:1-21 which is the classic story of Nicodemus who came to Jesus by night. 1 Peter 1:23 refers to a time in the past when we were “born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, by the word of God.” James 1:18 says “of his own will begat he us with the word of truth.” In Titus 3:5 Paul speaks of “the washing of regeneration” and in Gal 3:29 he says, “ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” and follows that with a reference to our having been baptized into Christ (into the name of Christ according to the Syriac Bible) and having put on Christ. The Apostle John refers to us as “sons of God” (1 John 3:1-2), “children of God” (1 John 5:2) and as “born of God” (1 John 5:1, 4) plus other references in his epistle. In the first chapter of the Gospel of John he says we were born of God because we received Jesus (John 1:11-13).

A few words about the classic passage on regeneration. John starts out by telling us about Nicodemus, a ruler (Sanhedrin member) and a Pharisee who came to Jesus by night. Jesus spoke these words to him, “Except a man be born again (or born anew or born from above), he cannot see (perceive, comprehend, experience) the kingdom of God” (verse 3). Nicodemus asks, “How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” Jesus then answers this query as recorded in verses 5-8. “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus then asks another question, “How can these things be?” Jesus then gives an explanation which is found in verses 10-21. The account goes on. Jesus answered and said unto him, “Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

In John 3:5 Jesus explains that there are two births. The first birth is physical and affects the physical part (the body) of a person. The second birth is spiritual and affects the spiritual part (the spirit) of a person. The first birth is called a birth of water and refers to our human birth from a human mother. The second birth is called a birth of the Spirit and refers to our spiritual birth from a Heavenly Father. The first birth is into a human family. The second birth is into God's royal family. The first birth is from below, from here on earth. The second birth is from above, from Heaven. Jesus said that there is a birth of water and a birth of Spirit. He also said that this new birth experience was something “that we (He and others at that time) do know, and that we have seen” (verse 11) so it was something that had already happened to some and had been experienced by some. Jesus also said that this rebirth was the result of believing in Him (verses 15-21). He compared it to the Israelites in the wilderness receiving new life by looking by faith at the brazen serpent which had been hung on a pole (Numbers 21:4-8).

Now, what about the “water” in verse 5?

I don’t know how many opinions there are about what the “water” is that is spoken of there. I know about several and I will list them below.

1. Some believe that “born of water’ refers to our first birth. In our mother’s womb we were carried in a sac of water. When we came into the world this water was spilled. A woman may refer to this by saying, “My water broke,” or “they (hospital workers) broke my water.” The fluid is some times called “amniotic fluid” but is generally referred to as water. Those who believe in this theory say that in verse 5, Jesus was answering Nicodemus’ question about being born when he is old and about entering into his mother’s womb again. Jesus was saying some thing like, “No, you don’t go back into the womb. Don’t confuse the two births. This is a second birth, a rebirth. The first birth was a birth of water but the second birth is a birth of the Spirit. The first birth was of the flesh and affects you physically but the second birth is a birth of the Spirit and affects your spirit.”

2. Some believe that the “water’ spoken of in John 3:5 is the “Word of God.” Both 1 Peter 1:23 and James 1:18 mention the word being part of the new birth process. Another verse used to support this is John 15:3 where Jesus said, “Now are ye clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.” Jesus is the vine and we are the branches and these branches are clean through the word. I think it was Bro. Gordon Magee that said Jesus was not referring to washing the branches with the word like water but was referring to pruning them with the penknife of the word. Another verse that is used to show that this water is the word is Eph 5:26 that is usually (mis)quoted as “that he might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of the water of the word.” If you read the King James Bible it does not really say it that way.

3. Others believe that the water spoken of in verse 5 is the Spirit of God. God’s Spirit is referred to as water several places in the Bible. This is based on a rule called “Granville Sharp’s rule.” This rule states that “when you have two nouns, which are not proper names, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person.” This rule is some times invoked by Oneness teachers to show that phrases like “our God and Savior” or “the God and Father” both refer to the same person because there is no “the” in the Greek text in front of the second noun. I am not a Greek scholar. I don’t know if that applies here but some say it does and the “water and spirit” both refer to the same thing. The Amplified Bible offers as an alternate reading “except a man be born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Dr. Kenneth Wuest’s Expanded Translation renders verse 5 as “unless a person is born out of water as a source, even out of the Spirit as a source, he is not able to enter the kingdom of God.”

4. Another theory is that “born of water” refers to water baptism. The (Roman Catholic) Douay Bible has a note at John 3:5 which says, “By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism: and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words (Matthew 28:9).” The Roman Catholics are not the only ones that believe this. It is also taught by some Protestants, by the Church of Christ (Campbellites) and by some Oneness Pentecostals. Another verse used to show that this is water baptism is Ezekiel 36:25-27 where God speaks of a time in the future when He will sprinkle Israel with clean water to cleanse them, give them a new heart, put a new Spirit within them, take out their heart of stone, and cause them to walk in His statutes and keep His judgments. So some take this verse to mean that we are born of water when we are sprinkled or baptized. The teaching that “born of water” means “water baptism” is some times called baptismal regeneration.” Also cited is the old custom of Jews referring to Gentiles who had converted to Judaism and had gone through the mikveh cleansing as being “born of water.”

There may be other interpretations of what the water of John 3:5 means but these are some that I have heard. You may have heard others. You may believe one of the above or maybe none of the above. I just wanted to show that there are different ways that people look at John 3:5. I am not arguing in favor of any of these (but I think some of you know how I believe), I’m just placing them before you.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:13 PM
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Re: The Most Famous Conversation in the Bible

5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_birth If you weren't born that way, sorry. Out of luck.
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