Mark Driscoll on Joel Osteen

Apocrypha · #1 02-16-2008, 10:09 PM

I love Mark Driscoll.. he is a amazing preacher out of Seattle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IuiU...205&Category=T

#2 02-16-2008, 10:14 PM

I agree with his assessment.

ReformedDave · #3 02-16-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikwebster

I love Mark Driscoll.. he is a amazing preacher out of Seattle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IuiU...205&Category=T

Good reformed brother.

Apocrypha · #4 02-16-2008, 10:35 PM

I laugh when he says hes a 5.5 point calvinist because he believes in the working of the Holy Spirit.

His book Confessions of a Reformation Rev. was awesome.. one of my top reads in the last year.

ReformedDave · #5 02-16-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikwebster

I laugh when he says hes a 5.5 point calvinist because he believes in the working of the Holy Spirit.

His book Confessions of a Reformation Rev. was awesome.. one of my top reads in the last year.

He's a wack job and some things he does I don't like but God is doing a great work through him in Seattle....it takes all kinds.

Apocrypha · #6 02-16-2008, 11:56 PM

he is very abrasive yes, but he is a prophet in his own way when commenting on our culture.

triumphant1 · #7 02-17-2008, 08:37 AM

Does the bible point out specifically that Jesus was born into a POOR family?

The reason he was born in a stable was because there was no room in the inn due to the over abundance of travelers...not because daddy couldn't afford a hotel....

His robe was good enough for the soldiers to gamble for a chance to own it...

I never once remember reading that Jesus could not afford whatever he wanted...his upstart ministry supported at least 12 assistants full time in its first months of operations....

Judas was also the treasurer...so they had an income source from somewhere...is it too far a stretch to believe that Jesus was born into money....because you have to have it in our world to operate...?

Just asking for the sake of discussion......

Apocrypha · #8 02-17-2008, 08:51 AM

i think your right on most of your points. Jesus wasn't poor, he was a carpenter (some translate to stone mason also). He was most likely kinda middle class because he had a trade.

Also the book of Luke states that he was supported by women who knew him like Cuza the wife of Herods manager of his household who was mostly likely fairly wealthy.

I just enjoyed Mark Driscoll taking Joel Osteen to task over hyper prosperity teaching.

Luke 8:1-3

1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him,

2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out;

3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

scotty · #9 02-17-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphant1

Does the bible point out specifically that Jesus was born into a POOR family?

The reason he was born in a stable was because there was no room in the inn due to the over abundance of travelers...not because daddy couldn't afford a hotel....

His robe was good enough for the soldiers to gamble for a chance to own it...

I never once remember reading that Jesus could not afford whatever he wanted...his upstart ministry supported at least 12 assistants full time in its first months of operations....

Judas was also the treasurer...so they had an income source from somewhere...is it too far a stretch to believe that Jesus was born into money....because you have to have it in our world to operate...?

Just asking for the sake of discussion......

I don't think He was poor either, but the soilders gambled on his clothes because he was professed King of the Jews. It also says that they put a robe of royal color on Him so it could have been worth something.
As far as support in food, the old law said that the farmers must leave the corners of their fields for the poor, at one time Jesus and the disciples picked from one these corners. Lets not forget the loaves and fishes, I look at that plus where each gospel says that there were many more miracles performed but too numorous to write and I can't help but wonder how many times they had mana from heaven (and not the kind you can order from that preacher on TV) But I do believe they had funds, He told many to sell all they have and follow Him. How much did He bless that and multiply it?

triumphant1 · #10 02-17-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

I don't think He was poor either, but the soilders gambled on his clothes because he was professed King of the Jews. It also says that they put a robe of royal color on Him so it could have been worth something.
As far as support in food, the old law said that the farmers must leave the corners of their fields for the poor, at one time Jesus and the disciples picked from one these corners. Lets not forget the loaves and fishes, I look at that plus where each gospel says that there were many more miracles performed but too numorous to write and I can't help but wonder how many times they had mana from heaven (and not the kind you can order from that preacher on TV) But I do believe they had funds, He told many to sell all they have and follow Him. How much did He bless that and multiply it?

I will go on record as saying that the "hyper-prosperity"--as it has been called--doctrine is not one I personally adhere to...

I also make no claim whatsoever that I have any biblical proof as to the financial state of Jesus while growing up...there just isn't enough scripture to make a claim one way or the other that I remember....but there again I may have forgotten or may have missed it...

I just think it it not sound to make a statement against prosperity preaching using a trumped up reason like--"Jesus was poor"...when there is no sufficient scriptural backing for such a claim.

I think that tradition leads us to think Jesus was born into a poor family BECAUSE of his humble beginning in a stable...BUT...the stable was a result of many travelers---NOT the financial means of Joseph and Mary.

Also, the lack of contextualization causes some to take Jesus' words concerning not having somewhere to lay his head although the birds have nests and the foxes have holes out of their proper perspective.....

AGAIN, this statement is NOT one of the lack of finances...this statement is about Jesus the messiah being a man without a country because his own refused him and turned him away...and following him was to sacrifice all of those creature comforts for his cross...

Again, not talking about being broke...he's talking about the messiah ministry and its price.....