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Old 02-04-2008, 02:16 PM
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DanielR DanielR is offline
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My Introduction

I just joined the Forum here and thought I give an introduction of myself. I am part of a very small but national para-church organization that has a ministry focus on people in a segment of society where the church at large (of every denomination) just won't minister to. The leadership of this organization consist of people from many different backgrouds and denominations. It is technechally a Trinitarian Org. and recently the fact that a Oneness believer (myself) was involved in the upper leadership got out, it created no small debate. The entire leadership stood behind me, and so did most of the members, but the leadership did have to deal with a couple Radical Trinitarian Extreemists in the process. I recently had to explain Oneness Theology, and my journey to comming to that understanding to everyone in the Org. which seems to ease concerns about what they thought they knew about Oneness. Yet there is still one radical holdout that we are still trying to deal with. The other leaders are about to tell him to get out, I'm just keeping my quiet and letting the Lord do His work. The following post is some of what I wrote in response to this. It contains some highlights of my spiritual journey.



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Old 02-04-2008, 02:18 PM
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Re: My Introduction

It all began when I was 8 years old, there I was in Sunday School class as I had always been my entire life. Always attentive and desiring to know more about God. Three years prior to this I had come to realise that I, even I, needed a Saviour in my life. But this didn't come to me in Church, or Sunday School, or even VBS. This came to me while staring at the ceiling waiting for sleep to overtake me. I was going over in my mind what all I could remember about Jesus. The fact that he came to Earth, lived amoung us, healed many people, and so on. Then I remembered that He was led away, and crucified, and rose again the third day. I remembered that my mother said that he died so that I may have life, which seemed odd to me at the time, because I was breathing and my heart was beating so I had to of already have life. But something that Jesus said, that I had heard just a couple of weeks before in the Sunday service, "I have come to give you life, and to give it more abundantly". What is this? More life than what I know. This is a hard thing for me to imagine.

Here I am a 5 year old, the son of a Senior Cheif Petty Officer in the Navy, an instuctor at Boot Camp at the Great Lakes Naval Training Base. Dad was the second highest rank in the enlisted side of the Military. Dad's next promotion would have landed him in the pentagon had he stayed in long enough to reach it. I had it good, I had life, I had 2 loving parents that cared deeply for me. Dad was sure with disipline, but I never questioned his love for me. Mom was good at explaining why I got in trouble. Together, they made a great team, and I knew I was loved. But Jesus said I have come to give you life more abundantly. At 5 years old, I didn't know what abundantly meant, but if life could get any better than what I had, I knew I wanted that. So right there in my bed, and in my own words, I asked Jesus to be my Saviour and to give me this more abundant life.

Fast forward back to the Sunday School class when I was 8, the topic of discussion that day was the Trinity. This was something completely new to me, I couldn't recall hearing it before, and I knew this was the first time it was taught in Sunday School to me. Something just couldn't make any sence. At 8 years old, I knew I still had lots to learn. I was just starting to read what I could of the Bible, but all those big words made it difficult. But this left me asking questions. How could this be? How do we know this? This is too confusing, I don't understand. I can remember the teachers final response, even today it still echos in my head. "Well" she said disgustedly, "You just have to accept it!" Even at 8, I knew enough that I didn't just have to accept anything that I was told. I told myself right there that I didn't have to accept it until I knew why I had to accept it, and how it could be.

A few years later I was finally able to get through most of the big words when mom had us kids sit down and read the Bible, which we did for an hour every day. But the incident when I was 8 was nearly forgotten with exception of when it would come to my rememberence, and when I remembered it, I always got frustrated that she didn't answer my questions.

Finally this all came to a head one day at Church Camp when I was 14, the minister kept making references to the Trinity in his sermon. I bet he said "the Trinity" or "Holy Trintity" about 20 times in that 40 minute period. As though the only thing he knew was the Trinity. Now being old enough, and developed enough to actually study the Bible for myself, I set out to read through the Bible to find this Trinity that absolutly nobody has been able to explain to me. Let me make this clear, I wasn't opposed to Trinitarian Theology, I just needed the facts to support it. So with an open mind I began.

My personality is such that I tend to all out until I tire, then being burnt out I stay away from what I want or need for a time before I return to what I started. And this project was no different. I read the entire book of Genesis the first day. I had already burnt myself out at this point. It would be several months before I would come back to engage Exodus. So I you can imagine, I didn't read through the Bible that first year. I needed to do something different and more productive.

Mom had always taken notes during sermons, so I thought I can do the same. So there I was trying to take notes, but being a teenager, and having my friends all around me, this proved impossible. Ok, what next, I need to get to the bottom of this matter. If there is a Trinity, then I need to prove it. I felt like a hipocrite being able to explain the Trinitarian concept, yet not knowing if it is true or not. So back to reading my Bible I went, this time I placed on myself a time limit for every study. Although I wasn't able to study every day, I was finally able to be consistant and I was making progress. For the most part, I would just read one chapter, and then reflect on what it was saying. Sometimes, I would have to read that same chapter a number of times before I could actually answer my first question that I asked myself, "What was this chapter about?" And with a note pad I would write out my answers, (I wish that I still has those note pads, but they have since been destroyed...Hmm) Let's see if I can recall my questions, there was "What is this Chapter about?", "How does it apply to my life?", "What was God up to?", "What does this tell me about God?", "Is there anything that can make an argument for or against the Trinity?" I think there was a couple of others, but those are the ones that I remember. I still wasn't very consistant, but I kept making progress thanks to my questions and answers.

It would take me until I was 22 to get completely through this. At which point I went back through my notes and assembled my Trinitarian answers together where I can compare them. And I started an intensive study of what had taken me 8 years to compile. This was not an easy task. There were verses that appeared to give the Trinitarian concept some validity, yet there were others that seemed to question the validity of the Trinitarion concept.

My findings from my 15 year jourey and 10 year study. The conclusion of which happened when I was 23. (Notice, this is two years before I would step into a United Penticostal Church for the very first time in my life. Until I was 25, I didn't know of any Church that taught Oneness theology.) I could go on and on, but I'm only going to bring 4 passages to light. It's these 4 passages that settled it for me.

The first two have to do with Baptism, these two scripture have to be looked at together for their true meaning to shine forth;

Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Acts 2:38 (King James Version)

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38 states that Peter is talking, but in the context you find out that this statement was in response to a question that was asked all the Apostals on the day of Penticost. This took place in the middle of Peters (previously unprepared) sermon. It is clear by reading the entire chapter that it is not Peter talking himself, but the Holy Spirit speaking through him. That being the case, does this mean that the name of the Father, and Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus? Jesus did say to baptise in the name of the Father, and Son, And Holy Ghost, but every refernce to new testament baptism (outside of John's baptism) is done in Jesus name or "The Lord's Name" I would have to conclude that the Apostals believed that Jesus was the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost.

The next two can be looked at individually. One in the old testament prophesy, and one in the new testament epistles.


Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

A number of times I've heard radio preaches try to explain that "Everlasting Father" didn't really mean everlasting Father. Trying to explain away the obvious by fancy talk. I can't help but to chuckle every time I hear it. Look at that verse carefully though, who is this child? We know him to be Jesus, but who does this passage say He is? I see the Father, I see the Holy Ghost, and I also see the Son. All three in the person of Jesus. This child foretold of Isaiah is Jesus, but he is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Colossians 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Verse 9 states; for in him (Christ Jesus) dwelleth all (how much is all?) the fulness (fulness, nothing lacking) of the Godhead (Godhead, all of God) bodily.

If you want to see the Father, all you have to do is look at the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to see the Son, all you have to do is look at the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to see the Holy Spirit, all you have to do is look at the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to see how the Godhead works and engages His people, all you have to do is look at the Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless you all,
Daniel
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:15 PM
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Re: My Introduction

I don't have to read all considering out present circumstances here, but I will. Just wanted to say welcome. Look forward to your imput!
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:26 PM
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Re: My Introduction

Welcome!
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:48 PM
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Re: My Introduction

welcom
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:26 PM
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Re: My Introduction

Brother Daniel- As promised, I read more of your post and, while, admittedly, it was only a brief read, I want to say again that we appreciate your joining AFF. I always enjoy reading of the spiritual journey others are on. And thats what it is. A journey. That journey takes us through many different experiences, but, as long as we walk with Him, our travels always lead us to the same plece- to the foot of the cross.

My journey? Well, its taken many different turns and I've encountered many different situations. I spent a number of years studying doctrines about Jesus, but, for the past few years, I've begun to study Jesus. I've grown to know Him in ways I have never known Him before. Even during the past few weeks, I've met Him in very special ways. Won't go into detail, but, well... when we get past the doctrines about Jesus, and get to know Him... something changes. Can'
t really get my thoughts together tonight due to our present situation, but, just want to know, I'm glad to know you as a brother in Christ. Glad to be on this journey with you. Maybe I can learn something. GBY and welcome. By the way... the key to posting here.... short, concise posts. Works better. Have a number of thoughts? Break them up in shorter posts. I'm still trying to learn that.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:31 PM
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Re: My Introduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
Brother Daniel- As promised, I read more of your post and, while, admittedly, it was only a brief read, I want to say again that we appreciate your joining AFF. I always enjoy reading of the spiritual journey others are on. And thats what it is. A journey. That journey takes us through many different experiences, but, as long as we walk with Him, our travels always lead us to the same plece- to the foot of the cross.

My journey? Well, its taken many different turns and I've encountered many different situations. I spent a number of years studying doctrines about Jesus, but, for the past few years, I've begun to study Jesus. I've grown to know Him in ways I have never known Him before. Even during the past few weeks, I've met Him in very special ways. Won't go into detail, but, well... when we get past the doctrines about Jesus, and get to know Him... something changes. Can'
t really get my thoughts together tonight due to our present situation, but, just want to know, I'm glad to know you as a brother in Christ. Glad to be on this journey with you. Maybe I can learn something. GBY and welcome. By the way... the key to posting here.... short, concise posts. Works better. Have a number of thoughts? Break them up in shorter posts. I'm still trying to learn that.
I like your though on short posts.
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Old 02-06-2008, 04:54 AM
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DanielR DanielR is offline
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Re: My Introduction

In most cases I'm pretty direct and to the point (like this post) that just happened to be one of my exceptions.

Daniel
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:08 AM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Re: My Introduction

Welcome to AFF Daniel!

Your beautiful testimony reminded me of my own.

I wasn't raised in the oneness truth, and was scarcely even taken to the Presbyterian church.

But nevertheless I felt the yearning that there was something more out there for me, and I just need to find it.

When I first started attending a UPC, I would take notes during the sermons and then go home and study my bible trying to disprove or validate the seemingly outlandish claims of the pastor.

I ended up convincing myself to be a Pentecostal!

The rest, as they say, is history.

Also, my Dad was in the navy too.

I have a friend whose testimony is similar to yours. He was raised in a trinitarian church, and vividly remembers the day he was taught, in response to his questions, that the trinity was a great mystery. He decided as an 8 or 9 year old boy that he wasn't going to accept a mystery about a God who otherwise has gone to great lengths to reveal himself to us.

Enjoy yourself here. Sometimes the fur can really get to flying, but don't take any of it to heart. If you want to debate, stick to the arguments of the debate itself and don't attack the person. Otherwise you may end up in "time out."

Welcome again.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:00 PM
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DanielR DanielR is offline
You are called unto liberty


 
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Re: My Introduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
Welcome to AFF Daniel!

I have a friend whose testimony is similar to yours. He was raised in a trinitarian church, and vividly remembers the day he was taught, in response to his questions, that the trinity was a great mystery. He decided as an 8 or 9 year old boy that he wasn't going to accept a mystery about a God who otherwise has gone to great lengths to reveal himself to us.
I have run into a number of people that although raised in a Trinitarian church, and can explain the concept, doesn't believe it. Some like myself have taken action to study out the matter and have come to believe in Oneness Theology.

Thank you for the welcome everybody.


Daniel
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