We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Better keep that steeple off the church roof as well.

Yep, the steeple is an ancient phallic symbol that was originally used on pagan temples.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I do not celebrate the holidays and yet I do not condemn my brother who does. I have worked out my convictions between my God and myself and feel compelled to allow my brother the same privilege.

But... let me say about the verse you quoted...

I don't believe that this scripture was trying to say that if someone kept one of the festivals of Diana... or a feast of Osiris... that it was okay.

I think this verse is saying... some keep the sabbath... some do not... some keep Feast of Tabernacles... some don't.

I feel that if someone kept the celebration of Saturnalia during the times of the apostles that this would not be acceptable and the verse you quoted, to me, does not convey that intent.

I understand your concern and it is addressed in the statement that both groups esteem or don't esteem that "holy day" to the Lord-- for His Glory.

[Scott Hutchinson]

From a Catholic source.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

I have one better,

Suppose you are a famous Jew who destroyed the works of Adolph Hitler!

You rose from obscurity and singlehandedly stormed Hitler's castle and killed him, liberated the Jews and others in the concentration camps, and had a philosophy that, if embraced, would give you peace and rest in your spirit.

Wanting to honor this Jew, we can't, no one knows when he was born.

What shall we do, FLASH!!!!!

Let's celebrate his birthday on April 14th!!!!

We will celebrate it with Swastikas and Eagle Banners, Ziek Heil we will cry!

Who cares if this was Hitler's birthday? We don't. No, we are going to honor this Jew by taking back Hitler's birthday and giving it to this one who gave his life for us.

Pass the stein? And paint the little mustache on the Jew's picture!

Now, That's honor where honor is due, right?

Having married into a Jewish family I found that very offensive.

However, I see the point you're trying to make.

The key is this...Christianity in Europe was attempting to redesign a pagan culture across an entire continent. Redefining ancient customs and bringing Christianity into focus during these celebrations was the best way to "overwrite" paganism and ensure that most of the worship of pagan gods was replaced with the worship and knowledge of Christ. Also much of the masses were illiterate. The holidays served as a time to teach Scriptural stories. Today, while we might put up a silly tree or place a wreath on our door...nobody would even know the first thing about the rituals or the pagan gods they honored. It also ended the revelries that terrorized the country side during the Yule season. It was a success. They successfully overwrote the culture of an entire continent. More than what I can say the "no Christmas" crowd can claim regarding taking America for Christ.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Well then, to not offend your brother shouldn't you then not have an xmas tree, just like Paul wouldn't eat meat, if meat offended his brother?

-Bro. Alex

I promise you and EB that if you were to visit my home during this season I'd not decorate so as to not offend my weaker brothers. I wouldn't want y'all to fall into your irresistible pagan tendencies. lol

Just a friendly joke. You know I love y'all.

Does your church have a steeple?

P.S.
Not that anyone here would lie, but I know for a fact I've talked to some Christians on several forums and a number have lied about their churches not having steeples. lol Sadly, lying is a sin...seasonal decorations and steeples aren't. Yet they'd lie on a forum to keep from looking glaringly inconsistent. C'mon folks. Be honest. Does your church have a steeple? If so... y'all have something with a far worse pagan connotation on your very church building. That's got to be more serious than a brother having a silly Christmas tree in their living room or a wreath on their door.

Not meaning to be offensive...just keepin' it real folks.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I promise you and EB that if you were to visit my home during this season I'd not decorate so as to offend my weaker brothers. I wouldn't want y'all to fall into your irresistible pagan tendencies. lol

Does your church have a steeple?

P.S.
Not that anyone here would lie, but I know for a fact I've talked to some Christians on several forums and a number have lied about their churches not having steeples. lol Sadly, lying is a sin...a seasonal decoration and a steeple isn't. Yet they'd lie on a forum to keep from looking glaringly inconsistent. C'mon folks. Be honest. Does your church have a steeple? If so... y'all have something with a far worse pagan connotation on your very church building. That's got to be more serious than a brother having a silly Christmas tree in their living room.

Not meaning to be offensive...just keepin' it real folks.

My meetinghouse has a small pointed top at it... I am answering as exactly as possible as to not lie. I think it's just part of the roof. With the way the hills and trees are around the meetinghouse, its hard to see it, and no one pays attention to it. The point it no taller than 2 or 3 feet... Definately not a steeple.

The "church" does not have a steeple. I've never seen brothers or sisters with funny looking pointy roofs sprouting from their heads.

-Bro. Alex

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

My meetinghouse has a small pointed top at it... I am answering as exactly as possible as to not lie. I think it's just part of the roof. With the way the hills and trees are around the meetinghouse, its hard to see it, and no one pays attention to it. The point it no taller than 2 or 3 feet... Definately not a steeple.

The "church" does not have a steeple. I've never seen brothers or sisters with funny looking pointy roofs sprouting from their heads.

-Bro. Alex

LOL

I love how careful you're being with the answer! LOL

I'll admit, I know pastors who are against Christmas trees who have very definite steeples on their churches. hehehe.

Now you have me curious, can you provide a picture?

P.S.
You're on the money about defining the "church" as people and not a building. Frankly, I lean toward the house church theology. My wife and I detest how modern Christianity is so building focused. We'd much rather meet in a network of small home based groups.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You realize that the term "pulpit" there speaks of a raised platform and not a "pulpit" as we know it, right? You see the pulpit as we know it is of Greek pagan origin and was widely used by philosophers in their schools to teach pupils various pagan concepts. If you look this up in any other more modern translation based on formal equivalency you'll see that it doesn't mean what most think it does. My point? Simple, it's pagan. Paul preached in houses and publicly without any form of pulpit or "scholasticism".

Of course I looked up the word before I posted.

The definition of pulpit is: a raised platform or high reading desk used in preaching or conducting a worship service.

The definition for the Hebrew word used in this verse, is: a lofty platform.

Now, I'm sure you're speaking of the lectern and not the pulpit, I'd have to look more and see what I find on that. I wish there was a way to research everything interesting in a night.

Scholasticism? Wait..no, never mind. My brain hurts.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You are correct, however, only Paul was a qualified rabbi among the Christians. Most such as Apollos and Aquila were not rabbis, and they taught the Scriptures in their homes conversationally.

Hmm.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Christianity definitely supercooled Judaism. It wasn't the Lord's intention to make Jews of Gentiles or to "Judify" the masses. Christianity is as near a universal religion as one can get. That's it's beauty. It can apply, appeal, and function without the need of an inherent "Jewishness" that Messianics like to demand.

That's not how God feels about it. But we're at an impasse here. I know I won't budge, and I doubt you will either.

Regarding eating meat sacrificed to idols Paul wrote...

1 Corinthians 8:4
As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Paul's point is that it doesn't matter if a Christian eats something sacrificed to idols, however, a weak brother or sister might be offended. Why? Because an idol is nothing. To you a Christmas tree is a bit scary idol, to me, it's a seasonal custom of decoration that casts a pretty light in the living room. Being European in ancestry, I find it a bit cultural too. Yes, I am of European ancestry and proud of it.[/QUOTE]

A big scary idol? lol At least I'm leaving this post with a smile. As I stated, you're convinced you're right.

The Bible says: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

You do your best to do that, and I'll do my best to do that, and God will sort out the rest.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by StMark

Of course not. We celebrate what took place- God became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Does anyone become a baby everytime they celebrate their birthday

That's not what you said Mark, you said the NEW BORN King. Every year He is shown as a baby in a manger, three kings (when we don't have any idea how many they were, and they weren't kings, but magicians). We are shown no where in the scripture where we are to make up a birth day (24th, 25th 26th take your pick of December) for the man Jesus Christ, and commemorate it. Also build traditions around it that were stolen from other religions.

Originally Posted by StMark

RCC does not own the rights to when or how we celebrate the birth of christ.

Isn't denial wonderful. Too bad it only works on the one who is in it.
Mark, just keep repeating that to yourself, while the rest of the world who deal with facts and reality laugh at you.

Originally Posted by StMark

Most protastant religions acknowledge the birth of Christ it doesn't make them catholic anymore then it does us.

Well, Mark, me boy, here is some more facts for you. Those "protastants" are part of a church split from the Roman Catholics, and with the Trinity, and baptism in titles, they also brought the December 25th borrowed from Sol Invictus, Mithra.

Originally Posted by StMark

We're not bound to adhere to the way catholics do things just because we both celebrate the birth of christ

The above statement is a total contradiction. Your not bound to adhere to the way Catholics do thing? Let's see, the Catholics borrowed December 25th from the Mithra cult, and you obediently celebrate on the exact day. You also call the day by the same title the Catholics gave the day. You don't call it Christservice, Christ's birthday, you call it Christmas. Do you have Mid Week Mass? Sunday Morning Mass? Sunday Evening Mass? No yet once a year you have a December 25th Mass, just as the Roman Mother church taught the world.

Originally Posted by StMark

We're not trying to compete with them. Their people come and leave.

1.3 billion Roman Catholics in the world. Mark, you don't want to compete, I take your place. I may or may not make a dent, but i'll die trying.

Originally Posted by StMark

We do everything we can everything we can to make contacts, win souls etc with those that come.

Just like every other denomination on the planet does. We all do. The xmas, and the easter are the two red letter days that denominations try and pack the house. We don't work two days a year. We need to be pounding the pavement every day.

Originally Posted by StMark

quite a few!

Praise Jesus, and bless His Holy name.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Why wouldn't I recieve worldly things from the world and give it back to the world? I work for meat that perishes, and I give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. These sort of questions are foolish. If you disagree with the president and he gives a tax refund, do you not take it?

-Bro. Alex

Because yours as YOU put it, is connected to a pagan holiday
. That's why it would be hyprocrital for you. taxes is something we are forced by law to pay into. This is apples and oranges SST.