Islam: A Religion of Lies...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I wonder if Walks is also racist? Can't help getting that impression from a previous post:

As noted in another post, I am a descendent of a long, unbroken line of good east Texas christian Klansmen LOL.......

The onion has many, many layers

I guess I am not racist. The Cure for Bigotry is Travel. (Twain)

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You deleted the portions of my post you refuse to address?

No senor. I was doing taxes and left it for later.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

REALLY? OH NO. REALLY? (laughing) OH LEARNED ONE. TEACH US ALL. You have exposed me again!

Seriously: I discussed this with Pliny. We determined together that Jewish law allows betrothal from birth, marriage at the age of THREE.

Talmud Kiddushin 41a.
Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1.
Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1.

Go to it. There is their law. MANNNN you people can fabricate some lies!

http://www.come-and-hear.com/niddah/niddah_44.html

MISHNAH. A GIRL OF THE AGE OF THREE YEARS AND ONE DAY MAY BE BETROTHED23 BY INTERCOURSE; IF THE YABAM24 HAD INTERCOURSE WITH HER, HE ACQUIRES HER THEREBY;25 THE GUILT26 OF ADULTERY27 MAY BE INCURRED THROUGH HER,28 AND SHE29 CAUSES UNCLEANNESS TO THE MAN WHO HAD INTERCOURSE WITH HER SO THAT HE IN TURN CONVEYS UNCLEANNESS TO THAT UPON WHICH HE LIES,30 AS TO A GARMENT WHICH HAS LAIN UPON [A ZAB].31 IF SHE WAS MARRIED TO A PRIEST, SHE MAY EAT TERUMAH. IF ANY OF THE INELIGIBLE PERSONS32 COHABITED WITH HER HE DISQUALIFIES HER FROM THE PRIESTHOOD.33 IF ANY OF THE FORBIDDEN DEGREES ENUMERATED IN THE TORAH COHABITED WITH HER HE IS TO BE EXECUTED ON HER ACCOUNT, BUT SHE34 IS EXEMPT [FROM THE PENALTY]. IF ONE WAS YOUNGER THAN THIS AGE INTERCOURSE WITH HER IS LIKE PUTTING A FINGER IN THE EYE.

GEMARA. Our Rabbis taught: A girl of the age of three years may be betrothed by intercourse; so R. Meir. But the Sages say: Only one who is three years and one day old. What is the practical difference between them? — The school of R Jannai replied: The practical difference between them is the day preceding the first day of the fourth year.35 R. Johanan, however, replied: The practical difference between them is the rule that thirty days of a year are counted as the full year.36

An objection was raised: A girl of the age of three years and even one of the age of two years and one day may be betrothed by intercourse; so R. Meir. But the Sages say: Only one who is three years and one day old.

Dude I have to tell you. If you lie like this, make sure it is not something easy to cut, paste, and check. Game, set, match on this jewish thing

R. Yannai (or R.Jannai; Hebrew: רבי ינאי‎, read as Rabbi Yannai) was a Jewish sage, living during the first half of the 3rd century, and of the first generation of the Amora sages of the Land of Israel. He was a disciple of R. Judah haNasi - the sealer of the Mishnah. R. Yannai founded a Beth midrash in 'Akbara that was located, at the time, nearby Safed in the Upper Galilee, where he taught the Torah, and at the same time served as a dayan, religious judge, on the Beth din, rabbinacal court in Sepphoris community. Among his disciplinces one can note: Abba Arika - Author of "Sefer" and "Sifri"; Yochanan bar Nafcha - One of the authors of the Jerusalem Talmud, Shimon ben Lakish, and more. R. Yannai is one of the descendants of Eli Ha-Kohen.

His name is mentioned in the Babylonian Talmud 176 times, and in the Jerusalem Talmud 254 times.

Johanan bar Nappaha (Hebrew: יוחנן בר נפחא‎ Yoḥanan bar Nafḥa); (also known as Johanan bar Nafcha, "Johanan son [of the] blacksmith") (lived 180 - 279 CE)[1] was a rabbi in the early era of the Talmud. He was born in Sepphoris in the Land of Israel. His father, a blacksmith, died prior to his birth, and his mother died soon after; he was raised by his grandfather in Sepphoris.

The most widely studied of these rabbinic teachings are known collectively as the Talmud, which has two parts: Mishnah and Gemara.

The Mishnah is the earlier work, compiled from the teachings of sages living at the end of the Second Temple period and in the century following the destruction of the Temple.

Sages in both Babylonia (modern-day Iraq) and the Land of Israel continued to study traditional teachings, including the Mishnah, describing the teachings as having been passed down from Moses at Sinai (either literally or figuratively). The oral discussions were preserved, either by memorization or notation, and later edited together in a manner that places generations of sages in conversation with one another. These teachers were interested in bringing greater harmonization between biblical and rabbinic traditions, largely by providing proof-texts for known laws and explaining differences between the biblical and rabbinic versions of laws. This is the origin of the Gemara.

MANNNNN what a dumb thing to do, openly lie like that? They actually give your lying little fingers a license to PREACH? You DO get that Mishnah thing right? That's the time of Jesus. He missed a real good chance to speak up about those teachings. I wonder why he did not?

Talk about a liar, you are lying when you claim that Talmud is accepted word for word across the board in the many different schools of Rabbinical Judaism. That is as stupid as claiming you came here to build a bridge between your religion and ours. The Talmud is a commentary of sages and Rabbis, all arguing different points of Jewish life and Torah law. To say that the Rabbis agreed on all the portions of Talmud you posted is a total laugh.
You proved that you are clueless because you don't understand the bar mtizvah or the bas mitzvah, both religious rituals are to bring the individuals into the community. Betrothals at an early age were not consummated like the Fabricator of Islam. Bar Mitzvah was performed at 13 for boys and 12 for girls, which would of made their eligibility for community and life. What ever you dig up from Talmud won't win with any Rabbi worth his Kosher salt. You would get laughed off your prayer rug.

Talmud is commentary, all of it, and it is interpreted so many different ways it will make your Hadith reading head spin.

So, let me help you Mr Wanna Be Muslim, Jesus is with the doctors of the law answering questions at the age of 12

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Jews in the Medieval times required a minimum age for marriage 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the betrothal can take place before that. How could they marry sooner? If a Bar Mitzvah and Bas Mitzvah were at the ages of 13 and 12, how could the Jews marry and consummate their marriages at six or nine?

Again, the Fabricator of Islam continued a practice which may of been part of his own pagan culture. Not of the Christians or the Jews.

Look what else I "fabricated" about marriage and Jewish law and the rules of marriage to pre-menstrual girls. Read the footnotes yourself. If you are not terrified to gather facts before you speak of what you don't know.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/niddah/..._64.html#PARTb

MISHNAH. IF A YOUNG GIRL, WHOSE AGE OF MENSTRUATION10 HAS NOT ARRIVED, MARRIED, BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ALLOWED11 FOUR NIGHTS,12 AND BETH HILLEL RULED: UNTIL THE WOUND IS HEALED.13 IF THE AGE OF HER MENSTRUATION HAS ARRIVED14 AND SHE MARRIED, BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ALLOWED11 THE FIRST NIGHT, AND BETH HILLEL RULED: FOUR NIGHTS, UNTIL THE EXIT OF THE SABBATH.15 IF SHE HAD OBSERVED A DISCHARGE WHILE SHE WAS STILL IN HER FATHER'S HOUSE,16 BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ONLY ALLOWED THE OBLIGATORY MARITAL INTERCOURSE,17 AND BETH HILLEL RULED: ALL THAT18 NIGHT.

Beth Shammai, or in Modern Hebrew Beit Shammai. Beth is Hebrew for house of) was the school of thought of Judaism founded by Shammai, a Jewish scholar of the 1st century, BCE. A non literal translation that perhaps gives a better flavour of the expression would be The Academy of Shammai.

(first century BCE?)

The House of Shammai was the most eminent contemporary and the halachic opponent of the House of Hillel, and is almost invariably mentioned along with him. Both Houses are mentioned in the Talmud, where all of the discussions between the houses are listed, including some stories. It is the eighth most frequently mentioned in the Mishnah.

In respect of their religious interpretations, it was said that the school of Shammai binds; the school of Hillel looses, but even though Hillel and Shammai had strong arguments, they respected each other. Indeed, the Talmud records that the two schools intermarried.

Modern day Rabbinic Judaism almost invariably follows the teachings of Hillel, but there several notable exceptions in which the view of Shammai is followed to this day.

Do you want to re-think your (stupid) post or should I "fabricate" some more?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

No senor. I was doing taxes and left it for later.

You live in Saudi Arabia?

You sound like an American kid, with "mannnnn" "peeps" and the "my bad" so how big is your masjid in the U.S.A?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Look what else I "fabricated" about marriage and Jewish law and the rules of marriage to pre-menstrual girls. Read the footnotes yourself. If you are not terrified to gather facts before you speak of what you don't know.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/niddah/..._64.html#PARTb

MISHNAH. IF A YOUNG GIRL, WHOSE AGE OF MENSTRUATION10 HAS NOT ARRIVED, MARRIED, BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ALLOWED11 FOUR NIGHTS,12 AND BETH HILLEL RULED: UNTIL THE WOUND IS HEALED.13 IF THE AGE OF HER MENSTRUATION HAS ARRIVED14 AND SHE MARRIED, BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ALLOWED11 THE FIRST NIGHT, AND BETH HILLEL RULED: FOUR NIGHTS, UNTIL THE EXIT OF THE SABBATH.15 IF SHE HAD OBSERVED A DISCHARGE WHILE SHE WAS STILL IN HER FATHER'S HOUSE,16 BETH SHAMMAI RULED: SHE IS ONLY ALLOWED THE OBLIGATORY MARITAL INTERCOURSE,17 AND BETH HILLEL RULED: ALL THAT18 NIGHT.

Beth Shammai, or in Modern Hebrew Beit Shammai. Beth is Hebrew for house of) was the school of thought of Judaism founded by Shammai, a Jewish scholar of the 1st century, BCE. A non literal translation that perhaps gives a better flavour of the expression would be The Academy of Shammai.

(first century BCE?)

The House of Shammai was the most eminent contemporary and the halachic opponent of the House of Hillel, and is almost invariably mentioned along with him. Both Houses are mentioned in the Talmud, where all of the discussions between the houses are listed, including some stories. It is the eighth most frequently mentioned in the Mishnah.

In respect of their religious interpretations, it was said that the school of Shammai binds; the school of Hillel looses, but even though Hillel and Shammai had strong arguments, they respected each other. Indeed, the Talmud records that the two schools intermarried.

Modern day Rabbinic Judaism almost invariably follows the teachings of Hillel, but there several notable exceptions in which the view of Shammai is followed to this day.

Do you want to re-think your (stupid) post or should I "fabricate" some more?

No need to redo the posting, child. You are stupid if you want people to believe that the Rabbis and their different schools of Rabbinical Judaism followed Talmud every jot and tittle. You and the White supremacist might want everyone to believe that but it just isn't so.

This is the same individual who fights for his side saying that lopping off heads, child brides, and female circumcision isn't all of Islam. But then freaks out when the tables turn on him.

How old are you Walks in Confusion?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

No. What was acceptable in the 8th century is no longer applicable to today.

Were you assuming that all Muslims believe the same things? As you say christianity has "evolved", so has Islam.

You should peek into Islamic law before you assume that "child marriage is mainstream".

http://www.academia.edu/6760706/Marr...ge_Islamic_Law

Unfortunately no phonics for you. You will have to struggle through it without them. Wait, you don't open links. Facts terrify you.

Let's summarize.

The range of marriageable ages for males extends from 15 years according to
the Hanbali, the Shafi’i and the Jafari schools to 17 or 18 years in Hanafi and Maliki teaching.

For female spouses, the range of marriageable ages extends from a high of 17 years, as represented by the Hanafi school, to 15 years according to both Shafi’i and Hanbali opinion, and down to as little as nine years according to Jafari teaching.

My wife is from Indonesia (most populous Muslim country). In her particular country the minimum marriage age is 16.


Erasmus was the old devil who sort of "rushed his new testament translations into print" resulting in a translation error or two. Carried into the german translations etc etc LOL. Did not find any record that this scholar who could translate Greek and Latin scriptures really identified and spoke up about the REAL meaning of the parable about God and Israel.

He missed it too.

Previously discussed:

Jewish law at the time of Jesus
Canon law
Laws in Colonial America

Did I miss some critical period of time? LOL I guess I did

(Erasmus) "it isn�t rare to see, esp among the French, a girl hardly ten years old married, and a mother at 11"

I know one thing. I have asked you all for that elusive time in history when the christian church wrote down or documented this interpretation of that parable more times than you have asked me what I am "doing here". So far zilch. So marriage age per the church magically appeared in the last 200 years. (actually the last hundred). Why so long if Ezekiel specified it?

If you were an honest individual you would note that this is a symbolic story and not meant to be, intended to be, or about anything but Israel's idolatry at the time of Ezekiel. But after the feminists got the marriage ages raised in the 19th century it IS a cool source (the ONLY one at that) for you to go back and 'discover' "that's how it was meant to be anyway".

Unless you have something else? Anything?

Erasmus is the prophet of Christianity?

Ezekiel explains the marriage between Israel and God. You ask for scripture and you get it, but still looking for some other manuscript? Sorry, Jesus is questioned by the teachers of the law at 12. Jesus tells his parents that He is busy at His father's business. Jesus still had to submit to parents, and get ready for His bar mitzvah to enter community. These individuals were marrying after they passed puberty, something which wasn't granted to Aisha.

You have lost the discussion.

You have Quran saying that Mohammed is your prime example on how to live, and Hadith on Asia's testimony on Mohammed consummating marriage with her at nine. If you are Muslim, then he is your example no matter what ruling on child brides come later. Sorry you lose.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

So now I don't live in Saudi either? (laughing)

I live near Jubail.

Look it up.

So, when is tax season in Jubail?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Don't forget to put down your foreign sourced income.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Al-Tabari, Vol. 9, p. 131

“My mother came to me while I WAS BEING SWUNG ON A SWING between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet CONSUMMATED his marriage with me in my house when I was NINE YEARS OLD. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

Was the above really a wedding day? The writer points out that no camel or sheep was slaughtered for her? Wedding day, but no animal was prepared for this festive auspicious occasion?

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234

Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj.

Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Doesn't sound like a wedding, and it doesn't sound like a willing bride. Aisha became ill when she was taken to the home of Mohammad, her hair fell out? Aisha's mother had to grab her and make her to go to Mohammad, with women took the child to prepare to go to a 50 year old man's bedchambers?

Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to PLAY WITH DOLLS IN THE PRESENCE of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (THE PLAYING WITH DOLLS AND SIMILAR IMAGES IS FORBIDDEN, BUT IT WAS ALLOWED FOR 'AISHA AT THAT TIME, AS SHE WAS A LITTLE GIRL, NOT YET REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)


Pre-pubescent young girl married to a 50 year old man?

No matter what Sharia rulings come later you cannot change that Mohammad is the prime example to follow stated by the Quran

Surat Al-'Aĥzāb 33:21

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT PATTERN for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Muhsin Khan

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a GOOD EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

Yusuf Ali

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a BEAUTIFUL PATTERN (OF CONDUCT) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Shakir

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

Sahih Muslim 8. 3310

'A'ISHA (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was SIX YEARS OLD, and I was admitted to his house when I was NINE YEARS OLD.

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 65

Narrated 'A'ISHA: that the Prophet married her when she was SIX YEARS OLD and he CONSUMMATED his marriage when she was NINE YEARS OLD. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari 7. 62. 88

Narrated 'Ursa:The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was SIX YEARS OLD and CONSUMMATED his marriage with her while she was NINE YEARS OLD and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

No matter what any ruling on child brides there is now or before they cannot get around what is written in the Quran.