All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reader]

Dr. Arnold was a recognized historian. Religious history was his main field of expertise. Eighty-eight Oneness Apostolic Christian organizations accepted him as their historian. He was the founder and Chairman of the Biblical Apostolic Organization.

If Arnold's recognition as a historian only lies within Apostolic ranks, then he is not a recognized historian.

Many people, including very solid Apostolics, have a problem with Arnold's book that you cited because it IS faulty.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

And just for good measure, all three PLUS standards.....you know so we can be sure they were really apostolic.

Yes, absolutely.

Good luck with that.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Reader

If Arnold's recognition as a historian only lies within Apostolic ranks, then he is not a recognized historian.

Many people, including very solid Apostolics, have a problem with Arnold's book that you cited because it IS faulty.

Including David Bernard.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Therefore for you to assert, or even suggest in any way, that Satan exercises power over the souls of the righteous dead, i.e., the saints of God who've experienced death since the ascension of Christ Jesus, simply CANNOT be scripturally substantiated!

This would be funny if not such a serious subject.

I have asserted no such thing.

I've stated that Hell (the grave) has no power. The gates of Hell were already crashed over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said "the gates of hell shall not prevail" in Matthew 16:18 He had not yet been crucified. He had not been placed in a grave. He had not been resurrected.

So..at that time His words were prophetic. They spoke to His ultimate mission. The Gospel.

As He died, was buried. and resurrected the prophecy was fulfilled. The gates of hell did not prevail. He conquered death and the grave.

So...stay with me here...you are trying to prove that somehow THE CHURCH must defeat the gates of Hell. That Hell still has power. But it doesn't.

You are working for something that's already been accomplished.

[Jay]

I may have my issues with some of Bro. Arnold's writing, but I believe him to be correct in principle. Further, because of his work, there have been others such as Bro. Bernard and Bro. Chalfant who have done research and shown that while not always has their been a clear line of succession from the Apostles to our current day, there have always been believers who held to these doctrines. Not always do even the two of them agree on all points, but the belief and thought is the same.

Btw, we are also attempting to reconstruct the beliefs of those who lived hundreds of years in the past with only the records of their enemies telling us what they believed, so if there were mistakes and errors made, they can be very courteously blamed on the information that was available at the time.

[FlamingZword]

Below is a list of people who mentioned Baptism in Jesus name.

(136-160) Valentinius, a Gnostic (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(160-225) Tertullian, Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus
(218-223) Pope Calixtus I (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(225–258) Lawrence of Rome (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(200-258) Cyprian, bishop of Carthage
(254-258) Pope Stephen I (he accepted baptism in Jesus name as valid)
(300-368) Hilary of Poitiers certainly knew of baptism in the name of Jesus.
(340-398) St. Ambrose, Aurelius Ambrosius
(347-407) John Chrysostom Archbishop of Constantinople
(401-417) Pope Innocent I
(354-430) St. Augustine of Hippo
(556-561) Pope Pelagius I
(673-735) The Venerable Bede of England, “The Father of English History”
(675-749) John of Damascus (The golden Mouth)
(741-752) Pope Zachary
(858-867) Pope Nicholas I
(1033-1109) St. Anselm of Canterbury
(1483-1546) Martin Luther the Protestant Reformer
(1530-1591) George Schomann a Socinian theologian
(1599-1647) Thomas Edwards English Puritan clergyman
(1735-1790) Robert Robinson, Historian
(1843-1898) George Thomas Stokes, Professor and Ecclesiastical historian
(1846-1937) Percy Gardner, Professor of Archeology at Cambridge

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Below is a list of people who mentioned Baptism in Jesus name.

(136-160) Valentinius, a Gnostic (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(160-225) Tertullian, Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus
(218-223) Pope Calixtus I (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(225–258) Lawrence of Rome (he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ)
(200-258) Cyprian, bishop of Carthage
(254-258) Pope Stephen I (he accepted baptism in Jesus name as valid)
(300-368) Hilary of Poitiers certainly knew of baptism in the name of Jesus.
(340-398) St. Ambrose, Aurelius Ambrosius
(347-407) John Chrysostom Archbishop of Constantinople
(401-417) Pope Innocent I
(354-430) St. Augustine of Hippo
(556-561) Pope Pelagius I
(673-735) The Venerable Bede of England, “The Father of English History”
(675-749) John of Damascus (The golden Mouth)
(741-752) Pope Zachary
(858-867) Pope Nicholas I
(1033-1109) St. Anselm of Canterbury
(1483-1546) Martin Luther the Protestant Reformer
(1530-1591) George Schomann a Socinian theologian
(1599-1647) Thomas Edwards English Puritan clergyman
(1735-1790) Robert Robinson, Historian
(1843-1898) George Thomas Stokes, Professor and Ecclesiastical historian
(1846-1937) Percy Gardner, Professor of Archeology at Cambridge

I bet most, if not all, of these men were Trinitarian.
I bet they didn't believe the initial evidence doctrine.

Alsp, just because they mentioned baptism in the name of Jesus you assume they believed in baptismal regeneration? You assume they believe exactly as you do because they simple mention the name?

What of the modern Charismatics who baptize in the name of Jesus but don't believe doing so is necessary to salvation? Are they Apostolic, too?

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Jay

I may have my issues with some of Bro. Arnold's writing, but I believe him to be correct in principle. Further, because of his work, there have been others such as Bro. Bernard and Bro. Chalfant who have done research and shown that while not always has their been a clear line of succession from the Apostles to our current day, there have always been believers who held to these doctrines. Not always do even the two of them agree on all points, but the belief and thought is the same.

Btw, we are also attempting to reconstruct the beliefs of those who lived hundreds of years in the past with only the records of their enemies telling us what they believed, so if there were mistakes and errors made, they can be very courteously blamed on the information that was available at the time.

Again, you have no evidence of any group who preached all three steps, the Oneness of God and standards with the same emphasis of modern Apostolics.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by rick g mcmahan

and the ACI is just as lost to bad they cant read past Acts 2:38 there is a whole bible to read and obey.

What is ACI?

[Charnock]

What does the absence of groups mirroring modern Apostolics prove?

It proves that Oneness Pentecostalism, as chronicled in so many UPC history books, truly is "The NEW Issue."