The Persecution of Women in the Church

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Isn't this just manipulation?

"Be thankful...it could be worse!"

YUP, Mind games. Most H.G. women I know have no interest in dressing like harlots. As a matter of fact, they won't. The H.G. is our teacher and guide if we will listen to His voice. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow. Most of this will go away when the church stops paying so much attention to it. It's just flesh following flesh.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You missed the part he was replying to

still don't follow you. a husband will do this with his wife. I have counseled many wives who are spiritually abused by their husbands. They will use the bible as their base for abuse quoting scripture.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You missed the part he was replying to

I didn't miss that part...but CS did...and since he did, I responded to his statement.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

This has been an interesting thread CH...I didn't realize the early church had such a hand in the degradation of women. And that it's lasted this long for so many centuries.

Do you think our modern society, with the liberties women have embraced in the last couple decades, is getting closer to the ideal treatment of women Christ had in mind?

Mrs.,

Though aware that this question was not addressed to me, I will take the liberty here to give my views:

No, I don't think the modern secular woman is any closer to being respected or treated as equals with men in the church or the secular setting. I think that we are still out of balance with what God intended although I do know that he cursed Eve in the garden so that she is never able to rise above the position or status except what is afforded her by the men [fathers & husbands] in their life.

I do believe that true Godly men who interpret scriptures as intended by God, value the woman that God has given them and are blessed by allowing her to become the best she can be. A successful/fulfilled woman is one who's husband does not feel threatened but feels enriched as his wife is an extention of himself.

Not all Apostolic women have been blessed with such a man in their life. I know a woman close to me that is in bondage every day of her life due to the fact she married a man that uses the submission and authority over her to alienate her from family and friends and uses the children as pawns to inflict hurt to those who will not allow themselves to be manipulated by him. This woman submits to her hurt but I believe that God will honor her in the end and break the yoke that has her tied up in knots literally and figuratively.

I do believe that the progressive Apostolic church has learned the value of woman and encourgae women to function in the gifts that God has blessed them with. These type of churches are on the rise and have a broader vision and more successful and growing church. Those churches which hold to the denegration of woman are churches that grow in number for a short time and then lose as many as they gain or they maintain their small isolated group and never show any noticeable growth.

Man and wife are one, not two with one of more status than the other. They are a unit that functions together as one entity. For this reason I always honor the Pastor's wife as Pastor as much as the husband. God being the best example of how to treat the women in his life. While on the cross he commanded on of his disciples/brother take care of his mother at his passing. God honored Martha and Mary by intimate fellowsh and restoring their brother Lazarus from the dead. God used Esther to save the Jewish nation from being destroyed. God used his mother Mary to give birth to the promised Messiah that saves the world generation after generation.

God loves and uses women in positive ways and never in th Bible did I see where Jesus applauded any man for misusing his position to embarrass, denegrate, or condemn women...even the prostitute was used to deliver God's spies, and the woman caught in adultery was not made to take the punishment for her sin over that of the man she was caught with. God uses women.

I love Jesus because he loves women and does not leave us out of the promise.

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Mrs.,

Though aware that this question was not addressed to me, I will take the liberty here to give my views:

No, I don't think the modern secular woman is any closer to being respected or treated as equals with men in the church or the secular setting. I think that we are still out of balance with what God intended although I do know that he cursed Eve in the garden so that she is never able to rise above the position or status except what is afforded her by the men [fathers & husbands] in their life.

I do believe that true Godly men who interpret scriptures as intended by God, value the woman that God has given them and are blessed by allowing her to become the best she can be. A successful/fulfilled woman is one who's husband does not feel threatened but feels enriched as his wife is an extention of himself.

Not all Apostolic women have been blessed with such a man in their life. I know a woman close to me that is in bondage every day of her life due to the fact she married a man that uses the submission and authority over her to alienate her from family and friends and uses the children as pawns to inflict hurt to those who will not allow themselves to be manipulated by him. This woman submits to her hurt but I believe that God will honor her in the end and break the yoke that has her tied up in knots literally and figuratively.

I do believe that the progressive Apostolic church has learned the value of woman and encourgae women to function in the gifts that God has blessed them with. These type of churches are on the rise and have a broader vision and more successful and growing church. Those churches which hold to the denegration of woman are churches that grow in number for a short time and then lose as many as they gain or they maintain their small isolated group and never show any noticeable growth.

Man and wife are one, not two with one of more status than the other. They are a unit that functions together as one entity. For this reason I always honor the Pastor's wife as Pastor as much as the husband. God being the best example of how to treat the women in his life. While on the cross he commanded on of his disciples/brother take care of his mother at his passing. God honored Martha and Mary by intimate fellowsh and restoring their brother Lazarus from the dead. God used Esther to save the Jewish nation from being destroyed. God used his mother Mary to give birth to the promised Messiah that saves the world generation after generation.

God loves and uses women in positive ways and never in th Bible did I see where Jesus applauded any man for misusing his position to embarrass, denegrate, or condemn women...even the prostitute was used to deliver God's spies, and the woman caught in adultery was not made to take the punishment for her sin over that of the man she was caught with. God uses women.

I love Jesus because he loves women and does not leave us out of the promise.

Blessings, Rhoni

Finally someone with some common sense and intellect. Thank you Rhoni. However, I will say this even though the woman was cursed in the garden, Jesus removed the curse, now women can be all that God has for them to be. There is no more curse. I disagree God will honor your friend. The bible does not command a woman to stay in an abusive relationship, contrary the opposite is true. She obviously has a boundary issue and needs counseling.

[Dora]

Questions:

1. Are holiness standards preached as salvation/heaven or hell issues?

2. Are women who adhere more strictly to the "look" judged to be on a higher spiritual plane than those who conform less strictly?

3. Are women who just never seem to "measure up" demeaned from the pulpit or by other women? (of course these "holier" women are simply showing concern for the spiritual well-being of those who are less "holy").

4. Once a woman decides to attend another Apostolic-based church where the standard is less stringent, are they accused of going charismatic, or of having less love for Jesus Christ, or of being weak spiritually?

All I can say is, "GOOD GRIEF!"

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Dora

Questions:

1. Are holiness standards preached as salvation/heaven or hell issues?

2. Are women who adhere more strictly to the "look" judged to be on a higher spiritual plain than those who conform less strictly?

3. Are women who just never seem to "measure up" demeaned from the pulpit or by other women? (of course these "holier" women are simply showing concern for the spiritual well-being of those who are less "holy").

4. Once a woman decides to attend another Apostolic-based church where the standard is less stringent, are they accused of going charismatic, or of having less love for Jesus Christ, or of being weak spiritually?

All I can say is, "GOOD GRIEF!"

So good to see you back in action Dora!!!

[Rhoni]

The Apostolic church, like the Catholic fundamentalist churches, are safe harbors for pedophiles, abusers of women, and predators. Because the man has all the power and the women and children do not have a voice...the abuse continues.

Have you ever really thought about the scripture where many who call on the name of Christ shall try to enter heaven and Christ says to them: "Depart from me I never knew you?" I have thought about all the sin and abuse done to women and children, the simple minded, and the widows, and the homeless, and those who love God with all their heart and follow men they trust only to drink the kool aid in the end.

I cry for myself and others like me who have bought the abuse thinking it was as God intended, but realizing the "Life more abundantly" was not for anyone but men.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Finally someone with some common sense and intellect. Thank you Rhoni. However, I will say this even though the woman was cursed in the garden, Jesus removed the curse, now women can be all that God has for them to be. There is no more curse. I disagree God will honor your friend. The bible does not command a woman to stay in an abusive relationship, contrary the opposite is true. She obviously has a boundary issue and needs counseling.

I truly believe it is as you say...but counselors are not accepted by most Apostolic churches especially if they are womenMany still find themselves knee deep in the curse put on them by satan through their men.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

You've never heard of a pastor that says that if a woman wears dresses only, she is doing it to honor God?

Read the part I enlarged in the quoted post you responded to.