Or could one say that "Greed created Capitalism?" There was greed long before Adam Smith documented the rise of Capital markets. But if we said that, then we'd be stuck with a tautology (greed=capitalism=greed) with no ontology; not an elegant philosophy.
So, how about: "People can be greedy"? That way we put the blame for greed where it squarely lies. Then we ask ourselves, "What is the solution to problems caused by greed?"
One soultion that many have found helpful is the Judeo-Christian ethic of independent labor (we are free to "work") along with its admonition to remember "the poor."
Let's not forget about the importance of motivation in work. People have to have hope that their labors will produce some benefit. Human beings (despited the example of the DMV) simply will not work in an environment where their labor has no tangible reward. There are a few saints among us who labor selflessly for the betterment of humanity - but they're not really fun people to be around.
I perfer to hang out with the guy who's working a little extra to afford the 64 inch screen before the playoffs. Capitalism adds a zest to life that is noticeably missing in Communism. Look at the Soviet Union; you had peasant/workers with jackets full of medals rewarding them for their "production" but empty store shelves.
1. take care of the sick/widowed/orphans
2. take care of the poor/give to the poor
3. do unto others as you would have them do unto you
4. don't worry about wealth
just off teh top of my head...
None of those are tenents of communsim. they are all tenents of Christianity.
come on you can do better than that.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Please show me one scripture verse where it says everyone sharing equally in everything earned so that no one was poor and everyone had what they needed (and more) is "of the devil"...
Romans 1 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
it isnt in having things in common, it is in holding Mankind as the center and looking to mankind to be arbitor of all that is good. this is the soul of communism. and by communism, i mean the phylosophy, not the twsited communist states that grew out of it.
communism is pure evil on every level. at its best it is a counterfit to the way God would want us to live and thus it is an anti-christ system.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The mistake is that, if anything, Jesus would support communism (lowercase) and be against Communism (uppercase)... but the reason He would be against Communism (uppercase) is becaue they aren't what they claim to be... instead of being egalitarian (good), they are totalitarian (bad)
this is twisted thinking. Jesus would NEVER support communism! good grief!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
no, this is where you are wrong and I can't believe your middle school history classes didn't show you how wrong this is...
socialism and Marxist theory was brought forth to replace CAPITALISM, not Christianity...
capitalism is evil, and if anything the Bible is staunchly against capitalism entirely and, if you really look at it... The Bible would support communism (see: the theory, not the execution (lie) of modern governments who claim to be communist) over capitalism...
socialism is generosity and giving... capitalism is greed and selfishness...
that is why people say Jesus was a communist...
My major in college was history bub. I know what I said and meant it. Clearly Marx and Angles were out to set up a system the replaced the outgrowth of the industrial revolution. There is however, a difference between what they wanted to do and what their final Manifesto in fact did.
I am not arguing any point on the subject of Capitalism. We are discussing Communism. We can discuss the political outgrowths and eventual states that arose or we can stick to a discussion of the principles outlined by Karl Marx. I don’t care which one you want to talk about. In either event, communism is a horrible task master that leads to destruction of nations and people and supplants God and places mankind at the center.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
no, this is where you are wrong and I can't believe your middle school history classes didn't show you how wrong this is...
socialism and Marxist theory was brought forth to replace CAPITALISM, not Christianity...
capitalism is evil, and if anything the Bible is staunchly against capitalism entirely and, if you really look at it... The Bible would support communism (see: the theory, not the execution (lie) of modern governments who claim to be communist) over capitalism...
socialism is generosity and giving... capitalism is greed and selfishness...
that is why people say Jesus was a communist...
This is a false analogy. There are good and bad aspects to each.
Capitalism is an economic system. It is not inheritly about greed
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitalism
n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
Notice nothing in that system requires greed. It's humans that turn Capitalism into a means of their own greed. Christianity has been used to humans to foment their own greed.
True communism would be everyone giving up careers and living all on a farm and doing the same work. That's an impossible dream. It's unrealistic to expect someone that spend half their life in college to become a doctor to get paid the same as someone that never went to college.
However biblical communism demands that the one with more help the ones with less. Biblical communism does not seek it's own, is not greedy.
Politically though, the church should be the perfect counter part to all that is bad. It is to be just, fair, moral, giving, producing,warning, sacrificing. It does not seek to cause an uprising or insurrection but it seeks to reform humanity. Humanity is at the core of every corrupt government
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
this is twisted thinking. Jesus would NEVER support communism! good grief!
I think we need to distinguish biblical communism from social humanistic communism, which seeks to take your private property and make it everyone elses. The main problem with that is it never worked anywhere...someone always was in control and as a result had more power and had his or her own property contrary to the goal
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
None of those are tenents of communsim. they are all tenents of Christianity.
come on you can do better than that.
they are tenets of Christianity...
and they are included in socialism...
You can't share wealth among everyone in society so that everyone has all of thier needs met without giving to the poor, the widowed, and the orphans and taking care of the sick...
you also can't share wealth among everyone (instead of collecting it for yourself) and still worry about wealth...
Those are all things that are a part of socialism... Yes, they are parts of Christianity, too... but they are, in a large part, why people say things like "Christ was a Communist"
Romans 1 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
it isnt in having things in common, it is in holding Mankind as the center and looking to mankind to be arbitor of all that is good. this is the soul of communism. and by communism, i mean the phylosophy, not the twsited communist states that grew out of it.
communism is pure evil on every level. at its best it is a counterfit to the way God would want us to live and thus it is an anti-christ system.
Marx's views on religion really have nothing to do with his views on socialism...
Yes, he mixed them, but you can easily have socialism without Marx's view on religion... They are mixed because the men who have implemented them were evil, but that doesn't mean the idea of everyone sharing wealth is evil...
So, please, answer the question:
Please show me one scripture verse where it says everyone sharing equally in everything earned so that no one was poor and everyone had what they needed (and more) is "of the devil"...
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