UPCI's Randy Hollis Throws Down the Gauntlet: The Emancipation of Isaac

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by tbpew

...and possibility the recitation of an old favorite cliche'...
...'love, love, love, that's the Charismatics; all spirit no truth...

and yet everything I read above is about:
-pointing to Jesus
-not obstructing the light that shines in an individual's heart
-each child of God experiencing truth for themselves
-every person walking in their own relationship with the one who loved them first

The lack of administering/establishing rules is not the lack of truth.

We are sharing and exhorting our testimony involving the principles of the Word that have borne witness in our spirit of the Spirit. Every individual will consider whether they will seek or reject this invitation to walk with him.

This is the bottom line! Amen!

I remember as a new convert the Lord giving me this song - the emboldened being what He was trying to teach me.

Joy Unspeakable

I have found His grace is all complete,
He supplieth every need;
While I sit and learn at Jesus’ feet,
I am free, yes, free indeed

Chorus
It is joy unspeakable and full of glory,
Full of glory, full of glory;
It is joy unspeakable and full of glory,
Oh, the half has never yet been told

I have found the pleasure I once craved,
It is joy and peace within;
What a wondrous blessing, I am saved
From the awful gulf of sin

I have found that hope so bright and clear,
Living in the realm of grace;
Oh, the Savior’s presence is so near,
I can see His smiling face


I have found the joy no tongue can tell,
How its waves of glory roll;
It is like a great o’erflowing well,
Springing up within my soul

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I don't want to steal Daniel's thunder here. He has brought an alarming issue to our attention.

Why are these organizations posting such an article on their websites? Are they using the current state of discontent within the UPC to their favor? Isn't this a very aggressive move on their part? I have a relative who has received calls from one of these organizations asking him to change his allegiance.

That's an interesting thought, and one that may hold some truth, but time proves all things. As for myself I doubt that the UPCI is going to be swallowed up into the tar pit of Charismatic doom. The UPCI still has a large group of those who are faithful to their fellowship. If anything would happen I don't really think the devout of the United Pentecostal Church International would run to AWCF. I'm not saying that to shed a bad light on the AWCF. What I'm saying is that those who are dyed in the wool UPCI members are looking towards making the organization more streamline more unified, and more focused on what they feel an One God Apostolic Pentecostal is to truly be.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

For years we have been warned the ultraconservatives would leave if the resolution passed. Now it seems there are options for those who will want to leave if the resolution dosn't pass.

Is this an organized effort to raid the UPC of libs and mods?

Brother, I hope that our UPCI Brothers go to the conference floor and pray with each other prior to do anything that has to do with voting. I think it's a shame that in Brazil that there's a Pentecostal organization (TRINITARIAN) which is ultraconservative and NO TELEVISION, and has 17,000 churches just in Brazil, and the UPCI has maybe a handful? UPCI has a ONE GOD, JESUS NAME, TONGUE TALKING message and they have a vehicle already in place to get the job done. I would hate if these Brothers could not get their own family business taken care of in a proper manner. We are all going to be around for a long time so I pray that the One God Pentecostals can move forward and some revival.

In Jesus Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Good post and I agree 100%.
However I also understand that the concept of grace and the concept of what your saying in the above is very hard for many to understand. There is COMFORT in having a black&white rule like the bolded part. Someone says "do this", and you "do that" and you feel that much more saved. It is also much much easier! The greatest commandment after loving God is to love your neighbor. This is NOT an easy thing to do, especially when you have a neighbor or brother who is not EASY to love. Much more simpler to rejoice because you followed your pastors direction and got rid of the old tube. Give you something to "amen!!" at during service, especially when he talks about the other heathen who have yet to do it. And in doing THAT your directly going against commandment #2,

Good post. I do agree that humanity does gravitate to rules. We do like order. I think you have to teach, as Brother Strange says, the principle as the focus and not rest, sit, lay, wrap, coddle and grasp the rule - holding on for dear life. It makes you feel safe, but not free.

Freedom, in relationship, is knowing you have been in His presence and He is the author of your life. You walk out free - nothing clinging, nothing holding you back.

When you feel sullied by the world, a refreshing in His presence sets you to rights again.

[Charlie Brown]

I think the balance of the "Principle Only" issue that some of you are pushing is that unless it is also taught how to apply that principle into ones life, the principle itself will not do the hearer any good.

If we teach the principle of modesty and never illustrate what modest vs immodest is, we are fooling ourselves if we think folks are going to just show up modest. I am not saying you gotta beat folks over the head, but sin must be identified clearly. Otherwise every man will simply do what is right in his own eye's.

The balance of principle is application.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

I think the balance of the "Principle Only" issue that some of you are pushing is that unless it is also taught how to apply that principle into ones life, the principle itself will not do the hearer any good.

If we teach the principle of modesty and never illustrate what modest vs immodest is, we are fooling ourselves if we think folks are going to just show up modest. I am not saying you gotta beat folks over the head, but sin must be identified clearly. Otherwise ever man will simply do what is right in his own eye's.

The balance of principle is application.

This is true. Our point was not about not making it an application, but viewing it as a phylactery of sorts.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

I think the balance of the "Principle Only" issue that some of you are pushing is that unless it is also taught how to apply that principle into ones life, the principle itself will not do the hearer any good.

If we teach the principle of modesty and never illustrate what modest vs immodest is, we are fooling ourselves if we think folks are going to just show up modest. I am not saying you gotta beat folks over the head, but sin must be identified clearly. Otherwise every man will simply do what is right in his own eye's.

The balance of principle is application.

Excellent points.

I believe in teaching first the principle, and then illustrating how to properly apply it.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

I think the balance of the "Principle Only" issue that some of you are pushing is that unless it is also taught how to apply that principle into ones life, the principle itself will not do the hearer any good.

If we teach the principle of modesty and never illustrate what modest vs immodest is, we are fooling ourselves if we think folks are going to just show up modest. I am not saying you gotta beat folks over the head, but sin must be identified clearly. Otherwise every man will simply do what is right in his own eye's.

The balance of principle is application.

But if the application is determined by any one other than the hearer it is not the hearer's heart at work; being manifested. The only thing being revealed is the hearer's willingness to OBEY the rule/application provider.

All the law is FULLFILLED by two commandments; LOVE GOD, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Please Charlie, please start listing the RULES THAT will enable me to properly apply that PRINCIPLE.

I submit...YOU CAN NOT. Because your rules do not know my heart, thus your applications can not safeguard MY HEART.

God is building his church within the individual hearts of men. We, as his bondservants, are mostly to aid in the safeguarding of the very young, the babes in Christ. I accept that to a babe you give ultra refined nurishment but growth will not continue for very long without letting them DIGEST their own food.

So Chuck, I respectfully disagree.

No human, serving as a bondservant of the Lord, can establish uniformity within the membership of God's own body, he and he alone does the work.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by tbpew

But if the application is determined by any one other than the hearer it is not the hearer's heart at work; being manifested. The only thing being revealed is the hearer's willingness to OBEY the rule/application provider.

All the law is FULLFILLED by two commandments; LOVE GOD, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Please Charlie, please start listing the RULES THAT will enable me to properly apply that PRINCIPLE.

I submit...YOU CAN NOT. Because your rules do not know my heart, thus your applications can not safeguard MY HEART.

God is building his church within the individual hearts of men. We, as his bondservants, are mostly to aid in the safeguarding of the very young, the babes in Christ. I accept that to a babe you give ultra refined nurishment but growth will not continue for very long without letting them DIGEST their own food.

So Chuck, I respectfully disagree.

No human, serving as a bondservant of the Lord, can establish uniformity within the membership of God's own body, he and he alone does the work.

So the new convert who adopts decency and morality after a good cleansing of the Holy Ghost is wrong?

We have such a person- educated and hungry- attending our church. No one said anything and this person changed their whole closet and home due to feeling conviction.

[SDG]

I'm glad this thread is providing thoughtful and substantive opinions

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

So the new convert who adopts decency and morality after a good cleansing of the Holy Ghost is wrong?

We have such a person- educated and hungry- attending our church. No one said anything and this person changed their whole closet and home due to feeling conviction.

bro, if you got that introductory sentence from my post, I commit to sign off now and go pray because I am completely wasting my time posting.

I await your response (my mouse pointer is on the little 'x' in the top right corner of my screen with exception of the occassional browser refresh).