A poll for those who celebrate Christmas

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I am trying to dig a little out of you here.

Does this scripture deal with Jesus still posessing humanity now? or does it speak of his work upon the cross as kinsmen redeemer??


Even though he has a glorified body (the resurrected body), I look at Jesus as having disrobed his humanity, and taken up deity he possessed prior to his birth. If not, what does he mean when he prayed, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Of course we know that the same man who left us to go away, shall also come again...in fact the angel told His disciples, making it very clear, "THIS SAME JESUS, whom you see going away shall come again..." Same man.

Yes, it also speaks of His work upon the cross as our redeemer. This is true since only in his Sonship is that redemption possible. It is a past work that has everlasting effecaciousness, until redemption plan is fully completed.

His prayer for His Father to glorify Him with thine own self, speaks of the truth that he had already spoken of to his disciples when he said, "I go to the Father," which was in the plan of God before the foundation of the world, that a man would be born in time who would become ONE with him who is eternal. It does not speak of his preexistence as a person with God, except in the plan of God that Jesus was already aware of. Jesus already know his destiny and had the road map to get there, which he followed carefully, right up to his glorification.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Of course we know that the same man who left us to go away, shall also come again...in fact the angel told His disciples, making it very clear, "THIS SAME JESUS, whom you see going away shall come again..." Same man.

Yes, it also speaks of His work upon the cross as our redeemer. This is true since only in his Sonship is that redemption possible. It is a past work that has everlasting effecaciousness, until redemption plan is fully completed.

His prayer for His Father to glorify Him with thine own self, speaks of the truth that he had already spoken of to his disciples when he said, "I go to the Father," which was in the plan of God before the foundation of the world, that a man would be born in time who would become ONE with him who is eternal. It does not speak of his preexistence as a person with God, except in the plan of God that Jesus was already aware of. Jesus already know his destiny and had the road map to get there, which he followed carefully, right up to his glorification.

So you feel that a merger took place between humanity and deity, and not a displacement of humanity for deity?

I am probably going beyond my simpleton understanding here. It may be that I place humanity as the creation, and deity as the Creator. I know Jesus walked this earth as the Creator in a created state, i.e. God in Flesh. But I do not see him post glorification in that state anymore. He is become fully God, and to me can no longer be looked upon as God in Man (Creator in created). Jesus is no longer in the form of a servant.

[stmatthew]

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Of course we know that the same man who left us to go away, shall also come again...in fact the angel told His disciples, making it very clear, "THIS SAME JESUS, whom you see going away shall come again..." Same man.

Yes, it also speaks of His work upon the cross as our redeemer. This is true since only in his Sonship is that redemption possible. It is a past work that has everlasting effecaciousness, until redemption plan is fully completed.

His prayer for His Father to glorify Him with thine own self, speaks of the truth that he had already spoken of to his disciples when he said, "I go to the Father," which was in the plan of God before the foundation of the world, that a man would be born in time who would become ONE with him who is eternal. It does not speak of his preexistence as a person with God, except in the plan of God that Jesus was already aware of. Jesus already know his destiny and had the road map to get there, which he followed carefully, right up to his glorification.

At what point did Jesus become one with God? Wouldn't it be better to say He was created one with God?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

At least it hasn't been hijacked by talk of standards!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Who on this thread has the highest standard of Holiness ? It's Hijacked now.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

So you feel that a merger took place between humanity and deity, and not a displacement of humanity for deity?

Merger? Hmmm. I suppose we might could use that word. One thing for sure, there was a uniting of divinity with humanity so much so that there can no longer be thought of separately. Jude called him the ONLY WISE GOD. He said of Himself that he is the first, the last, the beginning, the ending, THE ALMIGHTY. I Jn 5:20 calls Him the TRUE GOD. See Acts 7:59, Rom 9:5. When you look upon Jesus, the man, you are looking upon the God of heaven and earth, one with the eternal.

I am probably going beyond my simpleton understanding here. It may be that I place humanity as the creation, and deity as the Creator. I know Jesus walked this earth as the Creator in a created state, i.e. God in Flesh. But I do not see him post glorification in that state anymore. He is become fully God, and to me can no longer be looked upon as God in Man (Creator in created). Jesus is no longer in the form of a servant.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Rico

At what point did Jesus become one with God? Wouldn't it be better to say He was created one with God?

Certainly we find plenty of scriptures that testify that He was born, but none that I am aware of that says he was created.

I have spoken in times past of the metamorphosis of Jesus Christ.

Metamorphosis in nature can be seen in the change from tadpole to frog, from insect to butterfly and in many other examples too. This is the same thing that happened to the MAN Jesus Christ.

On the mount of transfiguration, he was changed so much that he shone as the sun, his garments were glistening white. The bible uses the word "changed." That word from the Greek is metamorphoo which is where we get our own word "metamorphosis." The change or metamorphosis was working in the body of Jesus Christ until he was completely changed into all his splendor and glory at his resurrection. Presently, in all of his bright glory and splendor, you could not look upon him and live.

The creator became one with him who was born of a woman, then fully a man child.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Certainly we find plenty of scriptures that testify that He was born, but none that I am aware of that says he was created.

I have spoken in times past of the metamorphosis of Jesus Christ.

Metamorphosis in nature can be seen in the change from tadpole to frog, from insect to butterfly and in many other examples too. This is the same thing that happened to the MAN Jesus Christ.

On the mount of transfiguration, he was changed so much that he shone as the sun, his garments were glistening white. The bible uses the word "changed." That word from the Greek is metamorphoo which is where we get our own word "metamorphosis." The change or metamorphosis was working in the body of Jesus Christ until he was completely changed into all his splendor and glory at his resurrection. Presently, in all of his bright glory and splendor, you could not look upon him and live.

The creator became one with him who was born of a woman, then fully a man child.

So, He wasn't God when He was born, but became God later? Is that what I hear you saying?

Originally Posted by Rico

So, He wasn't God when He was born, but became God later? Is that what I hear you saying?

It is a title that he never claimed for himself before his glorification. Heb 1st chapter tells us that he was made a little lower than angels. God humbled himself, indwelling this man from birth, having the Holy Ghost without measure by which, though (unlike God) he was tempted, he overcame the world, the devil and eventually death itself. Now, in the state of Godhood, he can never be tempted, dwelling in immortality..."who only hath immortality."