End Time Revival? Prove it...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Let me break it down for you. If Tabernacles represents the Millennium, then the FORMER RAIN (which comes AFTER Tabernacles) is what..???? And the LATTER RAIN (which comes around the spring, you know, around the time of Passover...) is what...?

See, the pattern is the former rain occur around tabernacles, and the latter rain occurs around Passover/Pentecost. The point being that the pattern of dispensationalism is 'the former rain happened two thousand years ago in the EARLY part of the dispensation at Pentecost, and the latter rain will occur at the LATER part of the dispensation right before and perhaps during the Millennium at the antitypical Tabernacles'. But this is all backwards! Because the former rain occurred around Tabernacles, and the latter rain occurred around Passover/Pentecost. So in the antitype of eschatology, you should be looking for the FORMER rain, not the LATTER rain... in fact, to carry it further, the FORMER rain would have occurred after Tabernacles (representing the INCARNATION or 'tabernacling' of GOD WITH US) while the LATTER rain would have occurred at the Passover (crucifixion) and/or Pentecost (writing of the Law in the hearts and minds under the new covenant with the shedding of the blood - Passover - which makes possible the pouring out of living waters - Pentecost). So both the former and the latter rains have been poured out already, and we today benefit from them both.

AS THE PROPHET ACTUALLY SAID:

Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. (KJV)

The word month is not in the original text. It literally says 'the former rain and the latter rain at the first'. In any case, if you take the hebrew rishon to mean 'first month', then it says the latter rain comes in the first month - which is the month Abib, at the time of Passover.

Dispensationalism and the 'coming latter rain' theology is simply not biblical, it doesn't match what the Bible itself says.

We have the former and latter rain available NOW. Looky here:

Eph_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

We HAVE BEEN BLESSED (past tense, it's already done) with ALL spiritual blessings. They are in 'heavenly places in Christ'. If Christ is in us, then so are ALL those blessings. If we are in Christ, then we have ALL those blessings available to us. If the 'latter rain' is a great outpouring of Holy Ghost revival and anointing, then we HAVE IT NOW IN CHRIST.

I mean, I'm a premillennialist fer cryin out loud and even *I* can see this! lol

This idea that God is going to remove the church, and THEN 'pour out the latter rain', simply makes NO SENSE.

The idea of God removing the church, and thereby removing the Holy Ghost from the earth so the man of sin will no longer be restrained... leaves no room for a 'latter rain outpouring'! And if the CHURCH is removed from the earth, then who is going to be saved afterwards? To what will they be added?

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)

This was spoken of the result of Peter preaching from Joel in Acts 2, where he also said "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. " (Acts 2:39)

See that? The promise of the Holy Ghost, the 'former rain, and the latter rain' is to ALL that are 'afar off, EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.' That covers everybody, period, from that day forward to the end of all things. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ. If the church is gone, there is no salvation possible, there is no outpouring of the Spirit, it's all done and over with. But according to the Bible, the promise of God contained in Joel and fulfilled in Pentecost is the very thing God has made available to ALL THOSE WHOM HE WILL CALL.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ah, now see, you are going back on what you said. You said the rains are not a type of the TIMETABLE (the 'when') concerning eschatology, nor is the outpourings of the Spirit dependent on the typology of the seasonal rains. Yet, here you are once again saying that they are!

You are saying we are in the former rain, and the latter rain has not yet come. This means the former rain comes before the latter rain in your timetable. But this is backwards to what the former rain and the latter rain actually are. The latter rain comes in the first month of the year (Abib) and therefore would be what we are in now. The former rain is the rain that comes AFTER TABERNCLES and would be what we should be looking forward to. But you say we already have the former rain (Tabernacles era rain) and are looking forward into the future for a future 'latter rain'.

In other words, you have it backwards. You are not consistent. You are not consistent with the Bible's representations and statements. Joel said the former and the latter rain would fall in the first month. In fact, I believe a good case could be made that Joel implies they fall TOGETHER in the outpouring of the Spirit - which as we all know began on Pentecost 2000 years ago. OR that Joel is simply saying the rains would be restored, both the former rain, and the latter rain 'in the first month'. In ANY CASE, the rains as depicted in the Bible, DO NOT MATCH the 'rains' as depicted and used by dispensationalism.

Now, people can do whatever they want, and believe whatever they want, but *I* want to follow the Bible. I do not want to, nor will I, simply take a Bible phrase or term and make it mean whatever I want it to mean. Like when people say 'pray this prayer and be born again'. They take a Bible phrase (born again) and make it mean whatever they want it to mean, and ignore what the Bible itself says it means.

In the same way, you seem to be taking a Bible phrase - the latter rain - and making it seem whatever you want it to mean.

Upon what basis do you say the latter rain is still future? Why would you even think the term 'latter rain' has anything whatsoever to do with anything still future? It can only be because you thought the former rain came in the early part of the year, and the latter rain comes at the end. And thus, you tied the seasonal rains and their timings to a typological, eschatological, prophetical 'calendar' of sorts. Pentecost happened in the early part of the church dispensations, thus happened in the early part of the prophetical 'year'. Tabernacles happens in the later part of the year, thus it must correspond to a future, post-Pentecost, event towards the end of the church dispensation. And because you erroneously thought the latter rain occurs at the end of the year, you assigned it to a role near Tabernacles, towards the 'time of the end'.

But, as I have already proven and shown, you were in error regarding when the former rain and the latter rain fell. The former rain occurred at Tabernacles, and the latter rain occurred at Passover. That is, according to the year, the former rain comes towards the end, and the latter rain comes towards the beginning. So, to be consistent in your approach to prophetic events and God's prophetic end time calendar or 'appointment book', you would need to affirm that the LATTER RAIN ALREADY HAPPENED, AT PENTECOST, and that if anything we would be looking forward to the FORMER RAIN AT TABERNACLES.

But why are you flip flopping on this? You just said "I used feasts to show that both are types (latter and early rains and the order of feast days) agree in order of events happening."

But you did not show that! The latter and former (early) rains do not agree with the order of events that you suppose have happened and will happen. They are the exact opposite. It was YOU who connected latter rain with tabernacles. But the BIBLE connects latter rain with Passover. The BIBLE connects the FORMER RAIN with Tabernacles. You are 180 degrees from the Bible.

Which tells me your dispensationalism is 180 degrees from Bible truth.

BTW, I am not a preterist.

[Esaias]

If there is an "end time revival", it's not a "latter rain" revival. The idea of the former and the latter rain are not connected in Scripture typology with a future end time revival. They are, however, connected in Scripture with the coming of the Christ and His pouring out of the Spirit. Since that prophecy was interpreted by the apostle Peter as being fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost the very year that Christ died, rose again, and ascended to heaven, it follows necessarily that the former and latter rain have to do with what happened 2000 years ago and which is available to us and all believers, at all times, no matter when or where they live.

So, if there is an end time revival, it has to be found somewhere else than in the typology of former and latter rain outpourings.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Notice, the latter rain comes "in the first month", according to the prophecy. The first month is Abib, and is the time of Passover, when Christ was crucified and resurrected. He is the "former rain, and the latter rain, in the first month". Rain provides the conditions for seed to germinate and grow, and waters existing crops. That is what Christ provides through His death and resurrection.

But notice, "it shall come to pass AFTERWARDS"... and then the famous prophecy of Pentecost. [B]This means Pentecost comes AFTER the former and the latter rain (BOTH!!!!) have been given[/B]!

Sounds good but doesn't work, considering the book of James is written after Pentecost and he still is talking of it to come.
James 5:7-8 "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. [8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."

This scripture hasn't taken place yet, and they both according to this scripture will take place before the coming of the Lord.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Sounds good but doesn't work, considering the book of James is written after Pentecost and he still is talking of it to come.
James 5:7-8 "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. [8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."

This scripture hasn't taken place yet, and they both according to this scripture will take place before the coming of the Lord.

The husbandman is a farmer. He waits for the early AND the latter rain. All farmers in Palestine did the same thing, they depended on the early and the latter rains, otherwise their crops died. James is not prophesying the future, nor is he giving typology about prophecy. He is saying just as the husbandman is PATIENT, we are to also be patient unto the coming of the Lord.

BUT LET'S PRETEND this is some kind of typology about the future. It would prove that we are still waiting for not only the latter rain but the former rain as well! Further, it would show that both the former and the latter rain refer to the COMING OF THE LORD not a pre-advent revival!

So, yeah, "doesn't work".

Now, go back and read all that I actually posted on the subject and you will see that the Bible is consistent. The former rain (which occurs at the time of Tabernacles, which is when Christ came the first time), and the latter rain (which occurred at the time of Passover, when Christ died and rose again), and AFTERWARD God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. Which we know from Acts 2 is Pentecost. Therefore, it is inescapable that both the former and latter rains of Joel ch 2 occurred PRIOR TO PENTECOST, and therefore it is inescapable that neither are them are types or shadows of any future revival.

The former and latter rain, in connection with revival, is given in Joel's prophecy, and they occur BEFORE the promised outpouring of the Spirit, which occurred in Acts 2 on Pentecost.

[Esaias]

Here are all the occurrences of "latter rain" in Scripture:

Deuteronomy 11:13-14
(13) And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
(14) That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

This is a prophecy that as long as Israel obeyed God He would send them the first and the latter rain so their crops would grow. It has nothing to do with any future end time revival.

Hosea 6:1-3
(1) Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
(2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
(3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

This is a prophecy concerning the resurrection of Christ on the third day. We were raised up on the third day. How? IN CHRIST, because we are risen WITH HIM. As He repeatedly said He would rise the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES. So this is referring to His resurrection. THEN we shall know (know what? We shall know HIM!) if we follow on to know the Lord, that is if we stay true to Him. This the disciples did, they obeyed Him and guess what? He came unto them (John 14) in the Holy Ghost!

It doesn't say He comes to them "in the latter and former rain", but AS the latter and former rain upon the earth. This means that His coming to the saints is LIKE the former and latter rain upon the earth - it is refreshing, life giving, anticipated, and brings rejoicing! That's what His coming to us is like!

This is not a prophecy concerning any former or latter rain end time revival.

Joel 2:23-28
(23) Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
(24) And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
(25) And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
(26) And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
(27) And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
(28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

This was already addressed previously so I refer the reader to the previous posts.

Zechariah 10:1-3
(1) Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
(2) For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd.
(3) Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.

This is in reference to the judgments meted out against Israel and Judah because of their idolatry, which brought a time of spiritual dryness upon them. So God says to ask of Him for rain ("Give us rain, Lord!") in the time of the latter rain, that is, at the appropriate time of rain. God had witholden the rain from them, so now He is saying pray for the time of rain to not be dry yet again. Notice, also, in v3, He is speaking about visiting His people and restoring them. Therefore, they have hope that He will indeed bring the rain back in it's proper time and not afflict them with drought (and thus by extension, with trouble and punishment). There is no indication whatsoever that "latter rain" here refers to some future end time revival. It's simply not in the text. You can read "latter rain", and think it means whatever you want it to mean, just like trinitarians do. But I for one want to stick with it's actual context and actual meaning.

James 5:7-9
(7) Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
(8) Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
(9) Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Here, the farmer waiting for the former and latter rains with patience is given as an analogy, that we are to emulate. What is to be emulated? The former and latter rains? No, PATIENCE! He says "be ye ALSO patient", right after saying "be patient, brethren". He then says "Behold", that is, "LOOK, the farmer waits for the crops to come in, and he has LOTS OF PATIENCE, until he gets the former and latter rains. You be LIKEWISE patient". The emphasis is patience, not some prophetic timetable. I will not repeat what I already said concerning this passage, the reader can refer to my earlier post where I dealt with this passage also.

So there it is. That's it. That's all the "latter rain" references in the Bible, old and new testaments. The only ones that have to do with prophecy are clearly referring to the times of Christ and the promised outpouring of the Holy Ghost - which according to the Bible already happened. None of them indicate or speak of any end time last days "latter rain outpouring of revival" or of the Holy Ghost.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The husbandman is a farmer. He waits for the early AND the latter rain. All farmers in Palestine did the same thing, they depended on the early and the latter rains, otherwise their crops died. James is not prophesying the future, nor is he giving typology about prophecy. He is saying just as the husbandman is PATIENT, we are to also be patient unto the coming of the Lord.

BUT LET'S PRETEND this is some kind of typology about the future. It would prove that we are still waiting for not only the latter rain but the former rain as well! Further, it would show that both the former and the latter rain refer to the COMING OF THE LORD not a pre-advent revival!

So, yeah, "doesn't work".

Now, go back and read all that I actually posted on the subject and you will see that the Bible is consistent. The former rain (which occurs at the time of Tabernacles, which is when Christ came the first time), and the latter rain (which occurred at the time of Passover, when Christ died and rose again), and AFTERWARD God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh. Which we know from Acts 2 is Pentecost. Therefore, it is inescapable that both the former and latter rains of Joel ch 2 occurred PRIOR TO PENTECOST, and therefore it is inescapable that neither are them are types or shadows of any future revival.

The former and latter rain, in connection with revival, is given in Joel's prophecy, and they occur BEFORE the promised outpouring of the Spirit, which occurred in Acts 2 on Pentecost.

Who's the husbandman according to the scripture? John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."

While that is true, the scripture also gives translation to this very subject.

But I do agree with what your saying. But Matthew 13 shows a fullness of growth. Each parable shows a end result of a full measure. That's revival in itself.

Maybe not, the way it's told by some to be, greater than the day of Pentecost maybe not; but then again maybe. As it becomes more wicked God will pour out grace that much more.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Who's the husbandman according to the scripture? John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."

While that is true, the scripture also gives translation to this very subject.

John 15:1 does not mean that everytime we see the word husbandman in Scripture, it must refer to God. That's ridiculous, and all can understand that. Therefore, if a term "husbandman" in some verse has a special typological or prophetical significance, there has to be something in the text (context) that indicates we are not to understand "husbandman" in it's ORDINARY SENSE OF A FARMER/RANCHER. Otherwise, it is to be taken in its ordinary, literal sense. If we do not follow that rule, we can make Scripture say absolutely anything we want it to say.

But I do agree with what your saying. But Matthew 13 shows a fullness of growth. Each parable shows a end result of a full measure. That's revival in itself.

The way it's told by some to be, greater than the beginning maybe not, but then again maybe. As it becomes more wicked God will pour out grace that much more.

Matthew 13:3-9
(3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
(4) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
(5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
(6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
(7) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
(8) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
(9) Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This parable shows that 75% of those who hear the Gospel never bring any fruit to completion, they are not fruitful. The 25% who do, however, are very fruitful. This is not talking about what people call "revival", a massive move of God that makes the history books, etc. This is talking about individuals who hear the Word and then "bear fruit". What is the fruit? Mass meetings? Extravagant demonstrations of "awesome mind blowing church services"? No, the Bible tells us the kind of fruit God is trying to produce in us:

Amo_6:12 Shall horses run upon the rock? will one plow there with oxen? for ye have turned judgment into gall, and the fruit of righteousness into hemlock:
Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Heb_12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Jas_3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

The fruit God is looking for is righteousness! As it is written:

Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

The other parables in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:24-30
(24) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
(25) But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
(26) But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
(27) So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
(28) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
(30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

There is no end time revival spoken of, but there certainly is a final harvest. Nobody is denying a final harvest. But that is not at all the same as this end time revival people keep talking about.

Matthew 13:31-32
(31) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
(32) Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

This is a fascinating parable. but notice, in the first parable, Jesus gave the interpretation and told them it was the key to understanding all parables:

Mark 4:13-14
(13) And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
(14) The sower soweth the word.

So, that being the case, let's look at the mustard seed parable. First, Jesus said the tiny mustard seed becomes a great tree. Yet, mustard trees are insignificant shrubs! So, THIS mustard tree is UNNATURALLY ENLARGED, it is BIGGER THAN IT SHOULD BE. Who are the birds? The birds that lodge in the branches of this way overgrown GMO mustard tree?

Matthew 13:19
(19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

That word "one" is in italics, it is not in the Greek. The birds are the wicked who steal the Word out of the heart of those hearers who have no understanding. So, Jesus is saying the Kingdom of God is like a mustard see that grows to a size all out of proportion to what it SHOULD be, so much that the wicked lodge and dwell (live, find their abode) in it's branches. Sounds just like the history of Christendom, exactly as prophesied. NOT some "end time revival".

Let's move on to the rest:

Matthew 13:33
(33) Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Well, here we have the same idea repeated as the previous one. Leaven is yeast (sourdough). What does yeast do to flour? It PUFFS IT UP, making it LARGER THAN NORMAL. Yeast is also used quite often in Scripture to represent FALSE DOCTRINE and SIN. So Jesus is saying the Kingdom of God would grow unnaturally large because of FALSE DOCTRINE and SIN. (That's why the branches of the mustard tree are full of Satan's dirty little birds!) This again describes Christendom - unnaturally bloated to a size way beyond that which corresponds with reality, due to the addition of false doctrine (Catholic and Protestant) and sin, where Satan's nasty little buzzards find a nice cozy place to hang out. Is that not Christendom?

Oh but wait! How can the Kingdom of God be described in those terms? Ah, now we get to the heart of what exactly is meant by the KINGDOM OF GOD.

Matthew 21:43
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

If the Kingdom of God is all peace love and righteousness then how can it be taken from the Jews? That means THEY HAD IT AT THAT TIME!

Matthew 13:41
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

NOTICE! There are things IN THE KINGDOM that "offend", there are those who do iniquity (lawlessness) IN THE KINGDOM! They shall be gathered OUT of the Kingdom! This means the Kingdom of God prior to the final harvesting is of a MIXED CHARACTER! It's a tree with Satan's dirty little birds in the branches trying to poop all over the saints! It's bread that has been leavened and puffed up to three times it's original and natural UNLEAVENED state!

Hear it again:

Matthew 13:47-50
(47) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
(48) Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
(49) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
(50) And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The kingdom of God is like a fishing net that contains both good AND BAD. And in the end of the age the bad will be separated out and cast away.

All of these parables point to the same thing that is spoken of by the mustard tree, which in reality is a rather insignificant little bush, not "a great tree" wherein the fowls of the air lodge themselves! So the parable of the mustard seed is NOT TALKING ABOUT A GREAT MASSIVE END TIME REVIVAL. Neither are any of the other parables in Matthew 13.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

John 15:1 does not mean that everytime we see the word husbandman in Scripture, it must refer to God. That's ridiculous, and all can understand that. Therefore, if a term "husbandman" in some verse has a special typological or prophetical significance, there has to be something in the text (context) that indicates we are not to understand "husbandman" in it's ORDINARY SENSE OF A FARMER/RANCHER. Otherwise, it is to be taken in its ordinary, literal sense. If we do not follow that rule, we can make Scripture say absolutely anything we want it to say.

Matthew 13:3-9
(3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
(4) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
(5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
(6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
(7) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
(8) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
(9) Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This parable shows that 75% of those who hear the Gospel never bring any fruit to completion, they are not fruitful. The 25% who do, however, are very fruitful. This is not talking about what people call "revival", a massive move of God that makes the history books, etc. This is talking about individuals who hear the Word and then "bear fruit". What is the fruit? Mass meetings? Extravagant demonstrations of "awesome mind blowing church services"? No, the Bible tells us the kind of fruit God is trying to produce in us:

Amo_6:12 Shall horses run upon the rock? will one plow there with oxen? for ye have turned judgment into gall, and the fruit of righteousness into hemlock:
Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Heb_12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Jas_3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

The fruit God is looking for is righteousness! As it is written:

Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

The other parables in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:24-30
(24) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
(25) But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
(26) But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
(27) So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
(28) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
(30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

There is no end time revival spoken of, but there certainly is a final harvest. Nobody is denying a final harvest. But that is not at all the same as this end time revival people keep talking about.

Matthew 13:31-32
(31) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
(32) Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

This is a fascinating parable. but notice, in the first parable, Jesus gave the interpretation and told them it was the key to understanding all parables:

Mark 4:13-14
(13) And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
(14) The sower soweth the word.

So, that being the case, let's look at the mustard seed parable. First, Jesus said the tiny mustard seed becomes a great tree. Yet, mustard trees are insignificant shrubs! So, THIS mustard tree is UNNATURALLY ENLARGED, it is BIGGER THAN IT SHOULD BE. Who are the birds? The birds that lodge in the branches of this way overgrown GMO mustard tree?

Matthew 13:19
(19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

That word "one" is in italics, it is not in the Greek. The birds are the wicked who steal the Word out of the heart of those hearers who have no understanding. So, Jesus is saying the Kingdom of God is like a mustard see that grows to a size all out of proportion to what it SHOULD be, so much that the wicked lodge and dwell (live, find their abode) in it's branches. Sounds just like the history of Christendom, exactly as prophesied. NOT some "end time revival".

Let's move on to the rest:

Matthew 13:33
(33) Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Well, here we have the same idea repeated as the previous one. Leaven is yeast (sourdough). What does yeast do to flour? It PUFFS IT UP, making it LARGER THAN NORMAL. Yeast is also used quite often in Scripture to represent FALSE DOCTRINE and SIN. So Jesus is saying the Kingdom of God would grow unnaturally large because of FALSE DOCTRINE and SIN. (That's why the branches of the mustard tree are full of Satan's dirty little birds!) This again describes Christendom - unnaturally bloated to a size way beyond that which corresponds with reality, due to the addition of false doctrine (Catholic and Protestant) and sin, where Satan's nasty little buzzards find a nice cozy place to hang out. Is that not Christendom?

Oh but wait! How can the Kingdom of God be described in those terms? Ah, now we get to the heart of what exactly is meant by the KINGDOM OF GOD.

Matthew 21:43
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

If the Kingdom of God is all peace love and righteousness then how can it be taken from the Jews? That means THEY HAD IT AT THAT TIME!

Matthew 13:41
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

NOTICE! There are things IN THE KINGDOM that "offend", there are those who do iniquity (lawlessness) IN THE KINGDOM! They shall be gathered OUT of the Kingdom! This means the Kingdom of God prior to the final harvesting is of a MIXED CHARACTER! It's a tree with Satan's dirty little birds in the branches trying to poop all over the saints! It's bread that has been leavened and puffed up to three times it's original and natural UNLEAVENED state!

Hear it again:

Matthew 13:47-50
(47) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
(48) Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
(49) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
(50) And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The kingdom of God is like a fishing net that contains both good AND BAD. And in the end of the age the bad will be separated out and cast away.

All of these parables point to the same thing that is spoken of by the mustard tree, which in reality is a rather insignificant little bush, not "a great tree" wherein the fowls of the air lodge themselves! So the parable of the mustard seed is NOT TALKING ABOUT A GREAT MASSIVE END TIME REVIVAL. Neither are any of the other parables in Matthew 13.

While all these parables are speaking of a growing until it gets to a full measure. That is a revival in itself. It's the same argument like you said about pre trib dispensationalist. We all do go through tribulation, and no one in their right mind would refute that. But when people identify that way they mean Pre "Great Tribulation" dispensationalist. Which we know is something taken from a text out of context, that theological societies adopted as a common term. Because Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 "FOR GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." Then in Revelation 6:17 the text says " For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" But if you don't accept that as something that took place, by Revelation 12:12 when it says "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Just as what Is the fufillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:8

I'm not talking about some revival that will be the greatest growth in the history of the world (but let God's will be done.) But I'm talking a growing until it's at its fullest extent, and the time of the gentiles is fufilled. That's also a revival.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I'm not talking about some revival that will be the greatest growth in the history of the world (but let God's will be done.) But I'm talking a growing until it's at its fullest extent, and the time of the gentiles is fufilled. That's also a revival.

Then you aren't talking about the "end time revival" the way I've always heard it preached.