1000 year reign

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Will anyone be saved during the 1000 years? Will anyone die??

To be honest, I doubt this "world" as we know it could hold every Christian that has lived up until today.

Yes there will be people who will be converted in the 1000 yr. reign. And folks will die and be born in the 1000 yr. reign.

Plenty of room.

[Steve Epley]

Elder Blume tell MIcheal how you folks folks have the devil bound now that is quite interesing. Talk about verbal gymnastics.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Elder Blume tell MIcheal how you folks folks have the devil bound now that is quite interesing. Talk about verbal gymnastics.

Hey bro. if you do not believe Jesus bound the devil, then you do not believe He spoiled princpailites and powers as the bible explicitly says He did!

Col 2:15 KJV And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Mat 12:29 KJV Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

We study Revelation by looking to the rest of the bible and finding the key points and realizing God's Word is meant to be ONE GREAT BOOK. Since Jesus, Himself, said you cannot SPOIL an enemy until YOUR FIRST BIND HIM, then if COl says JESUS SPOILED the devil, that means HE BOUND THE DEVIL.

HOW MANY TIMES MUST THE LORD BIND THE DEVIL?

Capiche?

[Michael The Disciple]

People will not be saved in the 1000 year reign as they are in the Church age. Here is how I see it.

9: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10: A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11: I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12: As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. Dan. 7:9-12

The dominion of the beasts (governments of Earth) will be taken away. They will be replaced by Saints who overcome. The LIVES of some of the people in the nations that are left are spared (verse12) so that Earth can be repopulated.

Like when Israel came out of Egypt. The whole generation was to waste away in the wilderness and die for their sins against YHWH. Yet he said their children which did not know good and evil THEY would inherit the land.

29: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,
30: Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.
31: But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
32: But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness. Numbers 14:29-3

This explains how there will be mortals living on Earth in those days.

16: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17: And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18: And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. Zech. 14:16-18

The Church will be resurrected into immortal Spirit bodies. Just as the Angels they can switch to what people call "glorified flesh bodies" to live in the Earthly realm as needed. We will go back and forth between Heaven and Earth under the will of the Lord.

YHWH/JESUS will establish laws for the people of Earth that will be enforced with a rod of iron.

26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev. 2:26

There will be much teaching in those days.

2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:2-3

The remnant of Jews that live in this New Earth will be favored highly. Also if anyone would commit sin they will be put to death seemingly as a child though they are 100 years old. Longevity will be restored as before the flood.

17: For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18: But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20: There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21: And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22: They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23: They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24: And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25: The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. Isaiah 65:17-25

So mortals and immortals will be living on Earth. The Church was something special in the plan of YHWH. During those approximatley 2000 years of the Church age he called out a certain number of people that he would favor. He would train them to be caretakers of the Earth as Adam was to have been before he sinned.

Then he would start all over again to fulfill his originl plan....to have a Planet of people who will be for his glory. Getting to long. Part 1

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats what I meant about OVER RULING nations. Of course our prayers can affect the nations. That is not the same as RULING THEM.

Why not? A spiritual dominion is just that! Brother, Jesus is over EVERY NAME THAT CAN EVER BE NAMED. And we are seated with him in that position. You can only say we are NOT OVER EVERY NAME if you insist on your doctrine.

When Paul said this:

1: Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4: If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5: I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6: But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 1 Cor. 6:1-6

He was speaking FUTURE TENSE. The Saints here have trouble settling disputes among themselves. But those WHO OVERCOME and are counted worthy of eternal life will JUDGE THE WORLD.

Sure. JUDGMENT is judgment. I believe we shall take part in the great white throne judgment IN THE ASPECT OF WHEN THE SINNERS AND WORLD ARE JUDGED. Its not the Great White throne rulership, but judgment.

There is a big difference in being JUDGES over nations of people than praying for their overthrow. Or that some event may take place. In that future world to come we will judge angels!

Yes and I believe that deals with participation in the great white throne judgment. It's the same spirit of thought that Jesus mentioned when he spoke of raising up Ninevah to judge those who could not walk across the street to hear Jesus, and Ninevah heeded Jonah when a greater than Jonah came to the Jews.

Fallen Angels will be judged at this point, too.

The passages you cite NEVER EXPLICITLY STATE when that judgment will occur. YOU CAN ASSUME it is some millennium, but WHY DID THE SAME PASSAGES NOT TEACH YOUR MILLENNIUM IN DETAIL?

What nations pray tell were ruled by the revival Preachers? Can you name one? What nation in their day was even walking in Acts 2:38 truth let alone the "be ye perfect" command of Yeshua?

I already told you we do it through prayer and faith. You never answered me concerning how Hebrews 11 says that saints of old subdued KINGDOMS, and yet today WE CANNOT DO THAT, as though we HAVE LESS than they did in the Old Testament.

Please respond. I am answering your questions. How come you do not answer mine?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Here is a new one................. Can you give a little explanation on this?

Bishop Haywood taught 7 parts of the 1st resurrection
1. Christ the firstfruits
2. OT worthies in Mt.27:52
3. The mystical resurrection of buried with Him in baptism and raised.
4. The catching away of the church
5. The 144,000 or manchild from Isreal during the Tribulation
6. The palm bearers of Rev. 7
7. Those who are beheaded at the end of Tribulation.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I most certainly do believe in the 1000 yr. literal reign of Christ on the earth. Many post-tribbers also believe this.

I have always believed that many Apostalics picked up the 1000 year reign on earth from the "Jehova Witness" church.

I only care about making it to the otherside.

From there I have faith to follow God to whatever and wherever.

Along as I am not cast into hell..........

[mfblume]

BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS AGAINST a 1000 YEAR MILLENNIUM AFTER THE CHURCH AGE.

1) 1000 year millennial teaching says that Christ BEGINS ruling over nations after He returns and resurrects the saints. BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THE END COMES when He comes in resurrection for the saints, and He CEASES to rule. He rules from the time He is seated on the right hand of God UNTIL all enemies are put under his feet WHEN HE RETURNS IN RESURRECTION. 1 Cor 15:23-26

2) 1000 year millennialism teaches satan is bound at the start of the millennium, after Jesus comes again, BUT THE BIBLE TEACHES JESUS SPOILED THE DEVIL ALREADY AT THE CROSS AND ALSO SAID YOU CANNOT SPOIL ONE UNTIL YOU FIRST BIND ONE.

3) 1000 year millennialism teaches Israel shall come to God OUTSIDE THE CHURCH, becuse the Churcch has already been raptured. This demands another plan of salvation for Israel. Paul said any other way of salvation is another gospel, and involves a curse. It is ACTS 2:38 from here on til the white throne judgment.

4) Millennialism teaches death occurs during the thousand years after Jesus comes. Paul plainly taught in 1 Cor 15 that when Christ comes, the end then occurs. And Death is destroyed. So there can be no deaths after Christ's coming.

5) Millennialism teaches the devil is bound so as to not influence the world in any manner at all, but Rev 20 states that he is bound to deceive the nations no more. And when you KEEP READING, and NOT STOP AT VERSE 3, you read THE NATURE OF THAT DECEPTION:

Rev 20:8-9 KJV And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

It is DECEPTION SOLELY TO GATHER THE NATIONS AGAINST THE CHURCH.


Partial preterism teaches THIS GATHERING AGAINST THE CHURCH is the last thing to occur before the rapture, when we are taken to the great white throne judgment. This is what we believe is the trouble the church will face.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bishop Haywood taught 7 parts of the 1st resurrection
1. Christ the firstfruits
2. OT worthies in Mt.27:52
3. The mystical resurrection of buried with Him in baptism and raised.
4. The catching away of the church
5. The 144,000 or manchild from Isreal during the Tribulation
6. The palm bearers of Rev. 7
7. Those who are beheaded at the end of Tribulation.

That contradicts the scriptures. It is ADDING to the scriptures, in fact. Paul listed ALL THE RESURRECTIONS in relation to the New Testament that are ever to occur. And he says there are ONLY TWO PHASES.

1) CHRIST AND THE FIRSTFRUITS

2) AFTERWARD THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING.

1Co 15:22-23 KJV For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Paul lists NO MORE THAN THAT! Let's not add to the bible.

That 7 phases stuff is whacky!

And after Christ's coming THE END OCCURS! DEATH IS DESTROYED! That is exactly what 1 Cor 15 teaches. At Christ's coming is the resurrection and we are CHANGED. THE END OCCURS THEN, and death does no longer exist! How can there be LIFE AND DEATH in the millennium if DEATH IS DESTROYED????

Since Millennialilsm teaches 1000 more years occur after Christ's coming, but Paul taught death is destroyed at His coming, how can people die in the millenium AFTER HIS COMING?

[Michael The Disciple]

Part 2

Toward the end of the 1000 year reign satan will be loosed from prison. He will again lead rebellion against YHWH.

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10: And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20: 7-15

He will gather up with him the remnant of those who will not submit to YHWH. They will all then be destroyed. The White Throne judgment occurs. ALL SIN IN THEN DEALT WITH. NO MORE DEVIL. NO MORE CURSE. No more "tempter" to deceive the nations!

Those faithful mortals living on Earth will simply continue to live albeit in mortal bodies. If Adam had not sinned he never would have died. Also the TREE OF LIFE will be opened to the nations because they refused to follow satan and his cronies and proved their loyalty to YHWH and the New World Order! Remember YHWH was concerned that Adam might eat of the tree of life and live for ever.

22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen. 3:22

What was denied to Adam will be given to the generations that are born after the 1000 years expires.

1: And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2: In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev. 22:1-3

So all the world will be healed! The Earth filled with his glory!

19: The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20: Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21: Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22: A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time. Isaiah 60:19-22

YHWH will leave one reminder of what happened to those who rebelled against him in that short little 6000 year period of time so the generations to come will see what happened to those who would not obey.

22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:22-24

As Gehenna served as a garbage dump outside Jerusalem where trash was burned into nothing this Gehenna (lake of fire) will be a memorial of the power of God over his enemies! The dead bodies of sinners turned into ashes will testify that "resistance is futile".

So the former 6000 years we know of will seem like just a short time as we look back upon it from the New Heavens and New Earth period. As more people are born and fill the Earth FAR MORE PEOPLE will wind up serving YHWH than those who did not during the 6000 year period!

Now of course new knowledge and revelation will be given to the Church when they begin to reign and things that may not be so clear to us NOW will begin to unfold in his plan and under the teaching and revelation of Christ.

This is my feeble attempt at this point to understand the prophetic scriptures. Seeing through that glass darkly. Waiting on the day star to arise in my heart.

HOPE I WILL SEE YOU ALL THERE.