My Opinion

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Although these things are not explicitly labeled in the scripture neither is homosexuality (Except for under the law).

Correction... h* is explicitly listed in the scriptures. Romans 1:25-32

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Beer, cigs, drugs, tattoos?

Do you think these things are good?

Would you let your juvenile children do these things?

I hope yaws answer is no.

If it is questionable how could any professing Christian do it? Most of the Good ole baptist I know agree on these things, maybe with the exception of the cigs. Although these things are not explicitly labeled in the scripture neither is homosexuality (Except for under the law).

We have become so politically correct that we can't call something wrong. Although the Bible doesn't name any of these things, it certainly has principles that can be used against them. The Holy Ghost will lead and guide in all truth, but I know many believe that they receive the Holy Ghost at the moment of faith (No evidence necessary other than having love for people).

no, they are not intrinsically good, and i hope i would instill in my kids the desire to abstain from these, but i don't see how that can be extended to "drinking beer is bad." 23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. (yikes, what hideous translation is that lol; fix 'frequent illnesses' in your mind, must be NIV, sorry) Where did we get this "call something wrong," anyway? That is up to you to judge for yourself, isn't it? Do you have support for this "call something wrong?" other than generally speaking? Because let's admit, we are talking about pointing a finger at someone, and judging them.

[good samaritan]

That isn't explicit enough for many in Christianity today. where does it say anything in those verses about h* being a sin. It just says men are working with men that which is unseemly and they no longer have natural affection for women. Of course I agree with you and I am sure most on here do. (I hope.)

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

no, they are not intrinsically good, and i hope i would instill in my kids the desire to abstain from these, but i don't see how that can be extended to "drinking beer is bad." 23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. (yikes, what hideous translation is that lol; fix 'frequent illnesses' in your mind, must be NIV, sorry) Where did we get this "call something wrong," anyway? That is up to you to judge for yourself, isn't it? Do you have support for this "call something wrong?" other than generally speaking? Because let's admit, we are talking about pointing a finger at someone, and judging them.

I'll give you that Paul did tell Timothy to drink a little wine for medical purposes. Is this really a necessary thing today? Do the majority of people drink alcohol for their health today? I sure didn't. Wine in the Bible wasn't different from juice today. The alcohol was a perk for the wicked, but my understanding is that it only was fermented for preservation. You can get the benefits of wine today without the kick.

I am not pointing a finger at people, but at actions. I have committed many sins in my life and I too am guilty, but Jesus rescued me. Christianity today is trying to make sinners feel they can live for God without leaving their sin (provided that they have a good attitude/aka fruit of the spirit). I don't approach sinners with all the does and don't, but people that have genuinely given their heart to God have a desire to please God. The Spirit of God is not going to allow someone to continue living questionably in the said things.

[good samaritan]

Drugs and Alcohol are rampant in our country. I nearly was killed in a car wreck when I was 17 because of the use of drugs and alcohol. We are seeing so many families destroyed by drugs and alcohol and because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not" many are sending an uncertain sound. Of course the gospel of Jesus Christ needs to be placed in the forefront, but we need to be clear about living godly lives above reproach. If someone has a doctor prescribe a beer a day for medical that is between him and the Lord what he decides to do. I don't think I know of any that fit that category.

If you see a pastor or a leader in the church walking out of a Qmart with a 12pack of natural ice what goes through your mind? Sadly it probably doesn't matter much to many.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

That isn't explicit enough for many in Christianity today. where does it say anything in those verses about h* being a sin. It just says men are working with men that which is unseemly and they no longer have natural affection for women. Of course I agree with you and I am sure most on here do. (I hope.)

I don't know how h* could be more explicit than that passage... while the term "h*" may not be found in scripture, the acts they perform certainly are... "men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" is pretty graphic and even a child could understand. It is just that they don't want to understand that this is very clear in scripture and want to continue in their sin.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Drugs and Alcohol are rampant in our country. I nearly was killed in a car wreck when I was 17 because of the use of drugs and alcohol. We are seeing so many families destroyed by drugs and alcohol and because the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not" many are sending an uncertain sound. Of course the gospel of Jesus Christ needs to be placed in the forefront, but we need to be clear about living godly lives above reproach. If someone has a doctor prescribe a beer a day for medical that is between him and the Lord what he decides to do. I don't think I know of any that fit that category.

If you see a pastor or a leader in the church walking out of a Qmart with a 12pack of natural ice what goes through your mind? Sadly it probably doesn't matter much to many.

All vices of the flesh should be spurned by the true disciple of Jesus, in my opinion... but that is my opinion.

However, it is not my job to police the rest of my brothers and sisters in the Lord, that is the work of the Holy Spirit, to convict and prick their hearts.

The less fleshly vices we have in our lives to distract us from truly obeying Jesus Christ in all we do, the better.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I don't know how h* could be more explicit than that passage... while the term "h*" may not be found in scripture, the acts they perform certainly are... "men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" is pretty graphic and even a child could understand. It is just that they don't want to understand that this is very clear in scripture and want to continue in their sin.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

All vices of the flesh should be spurned by the true disciple of Jesus, in my opinion... but that is my opinion.

However, it is not my job to police the rest of my brothers and sisters in the Lord, that is the work of the Holy Spirit, to convict and prick their hearts.

The less fleshly vices we have in our lives to distract us from truly obeying Jesus Christ in all we do, the better.

I am not talking policing people, but I am talking about exhorting one another. Should we not bring these subjects up when we assemble together? If we teach to not do these thing, should it only be as a suggestion? I don't seek to offend anyone, but we are becoming so concerned not to offend people that we shooting our own self in the foot.

We create culture. Culture is simply what people allow until it becomes the normal. I grew up in the 80's and 90's when h* where airing shows on tv (Ellen and the like) but I didn't even know of a real life person who was openly h*. Today probably each of us on aff know several that are h*. Culture doesn't determine right and wrong, but the Spirit and the Word does.

PS I am not disagreeing with you.

[shazeep]

i wonder if Scripture doesn't allow that culture actually does determine right and wrong, at least to an extent.

Originally Posted by good samaritan

If you see a pastor or a leader in the church walking out of a Qmart with a 12pack of natural ice what goes through your mind? Sadly it probably doesn't matter much to many.

as usual, your posts are full of wisdom, GS. It would not matter to me, on the 12 pack, but that does not deny that a pastor should avoid even the appearance of offense, to a weaker brother. But what offends a Christian deserves a hearing here, too, and frankly, i'm not sure where the line is. i think wine is wine in Scripture, and grape juice is new wine, but i might be mistaken there. i do know that the Israelites were instructed to buy whatever they wanted for a certain feast, once a year, i guess, including liquor if that was what they wanted, but then that is a special case.

@ "Sadly," though, i have a problem, if i didn't before. This indicates judgement to me, misplaced. If i saw the guy drunk in public, i might change pastors, but still would not judge him in this way; or at least i would feel guilty for doing so. But you suggest here that i am not judging right because i saw a 12 pack? And while i understand why, this strikes me as hypocrisy wadr. His brother is visiting and asked him to pick up a 12 pack, maybe.
i mean, the lesson seems to extend to me checking if his hair is touching his collar, and having to care about that, and at that point we are just on a slip-n-slide