Black Robe Regiment & Consequences Gay Marriage

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Have a church right up the block from the house and the preacher was married 7 times. Wow. One sin?

I don't know the circumstances of his marriages. Obviously it doesn't read well.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

In the Apostolic Church, thank God the ministers aren't King David.

He was forbidden to build the house of God, because he was a man of war.

Adulterer preachers are just not ruling their house well. So, how can they oversee the house of God?

Right, he was forbidden to build it, not because of his adultery, but because he was a man of war.

He still has his name prominently attached to the lineage of Jesus and the Tabernacle.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Ron

Remember, David was king, not priest & we are living in the NT!

Yes, we are living in the NT. David lived under the law and should have been stoned to death for his sin, but wasn't.

I don't believe in greasy grace, but I don't believe God intended us to prohibit repented adulterers from the ministry.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Good post, though I still disagree on elevating adultery above other sins and excluding ministers who have fallen in adultery from preaching again after having repented.

Let's examine what you posted on 1 Timothy

1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
A bishop must be blameless. Would this pertain not only adultery but to any sin?

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Ruleth well his own house. You say adultery excludes men from preaching because of verse 5, yet the preceeding verse is not about adultery at all. IMO, it's about keeping your children from rebellion. If your children are rebellious and you can't keep them in line, how can you expect to deal with rebellious saints?

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Should we consider verse 6 to be a prohibition on young men from preaching or a period of probation for new converts before they can preach?

I understand the violation of trust which occurs with adultery, and the sad and incredible web which cause it to affect far more than just the man and woman involved. I've seen it happen with saints in the church.

I just don't believe it should exclude a man from preaching again, once he's repented and God has forgiven him.

If God can forgive him and give him eternal life, who are we to put shackles on him and limit the ministry God may have for him?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or have a bad spirit here. Nor am I accusing you or others who hold these beliefs of anything, other than being Godly men who are trying to protect others. I appreciate your post, though I disagree with it.

OK, ND, try to explain the reason the apostle put in this clause into the 1st Timothy 3:4-5 qualification? Also, if he can break the contract once, why can't he do it twice? All he has to do is say he is sorry, and climb back behind the pulpit?

What about if his adultery is with a minor in the church? All he has to do is say he is sorry and climb back on the platform, grab his Bible, and lead us into the first worship song in our Word a Flame hymnals?

What I'm trying to say my brother that Paul was presenting a clear blueprint on what could go and what must be sat down. One of the major complaints against the Roman Catholic scandals is that the Roman church would pull a minister out of one parish and place them in another. What is the restoration time? We have what we have in the scripture, a moral failure is just a band-aid on a bullet wound. I'm not saying to be unmerciful, I'm not saying to do things without love or patience, but God help the man who crosses the line and betrays, wife, children, brethren, and church family.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

I don't know the circumstances of his marriages. Obviously it doesn't read well.

He went from one woman to the next. I guess he can't read.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

He went from one woman to the next. I guess he can't read.

Then he's living in sin and hasn't repented. I'm not going to defend the sin and lack of repentance.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I believe if you were following my posts you would of understood when I quoted 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 that the apostle creates a list of those who will not enter the Kingdom of God, then tells his readers they were once like those in the list. That would include where Paul says "homosexuals" yet, he says they became eligible because they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of Jesus Christ 1st Corinthians 6:11. But being turned over to a reprobate mind Romans 1:26-28 is someone who once knew God, rejected God, had not a love for truth 2nd Thessalonians 2:10-11. People who were once clean, swept, and garnished, but had seven more demons worse then the one he had cast out come to live in him again Matthew 12:45, Luke 11:26. These are not sinners who were clueless, who never tasted of the heavenly gift Hebrews 6:4-6. They have blasphemed the Holy Ghost and it is impossible for them to be restored.

Gotcha!

You spoke regarding the sinners before conversion. I got turned aside when you seemed to compare
Israelites (OT children of the promise), with sinners (unregenerated) today. My thoughts have been
to compare nations outside of Israel, to those outside of God's grace.

Regarding homosexuals: if unrepentant, they go from bad to worse and are twice reprimanded
until ultimately rejected (reprobate). I believe the scriptures teach that that can happen to ANY
person who fails to repent: unconverted or saint.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Right, he was forbidden to build it, not because of his adultery, but because he was a man of war.

He still has his name prominently attached to the lineage of Jesus and the Tabernacle.

Jesus also has the cursed Jehoiakim in His genealogy. So?

David's offspring through murder and adultery were wiped out.

Man of war, meant he killed by means of war, lost his kingdom through civil war due to the punishment of murdering an innocent man, and man who honored David as King. No, David is no example of New Testament leadership.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, we are living in the NT. David lived under the law and should have been stoned to death for his sin, but wasn't.

I don't believe in greasy grace, but I don't believe God intended us to prohibit repented adulterers from the ministry.

God, left it up to man (Apostolics) to enact bylaws for the Ministry for the benefit of the Church at large.

Do you think a Minister who molests kids should be barred from ministry even if he repents?
What about a minister who is convicted of manslaughter of one of the Saints, or misappropriation of funds?
Would all of the above get to have a license if they repent & make it right?
Should they be allowed to Pastor again?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Then he's living in sin and hasn't repented. I'm not going to defend the sin and lack of repentance.

ND, it is like the little boy who refused to sit down in the back of the car. Time after time he was told to sit down. Finally the father, pulls to the side of the road and tells Sonny Jim to buckle the safety belt tight. He complies, and the father gets back into the driver seat and continues on. But, the dad hears from the back a brash voice from the boy, "I may be sitting down, BUT, I am standing in my heart!." Funny? I guess, but the minister I mentioned is an extreme, but there are others whose hearts are in full blown adultery, and well meaning, sincere men, and women, allow the offender to climb back into the pulpit. We aren't doing anyone a kindness when we are trying to be nicer than Jesus. Adultery is betrayal on so many levels, moral failure is spiritual death on so many levels. Coming against Satan with the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony Revelation 12:11. Isn't the horror stories of when I was in the world. Telling a church family about what I did when I was lost, but what we do NOW living for God an overcomers life, being able to run the race and run the course well, keeping the faith, 2 Timothy 4:7. That's the testimony! Becoming a castaway, when we have preached unto others isn't part of running well and keeping the faith.