The Appeal of Preterism

[shag]

i've considered that, but after how many fullfillments is it a fulfilled prophecy?
Can we ever know that a prophecy is EVER fulfilled, if we were to leave the opportunity open of it being fulfilled numerous times over?


I think of when Jesus said, this day is the scripture fulfilled in your ears. Can we leave that open for multiple fullfillings...no. Can we others?

[mfblume]

I've considered dual fulfillment, because there is such a thing when something in the Old Testament fulfilled a prophecy, such as Solomon rising up to reign as son of David, while Jesus Christ is the greater Son of David who now reigns. However, that is dual only in the sense that a foreshadow IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD BEFORE THE CROSS serves as the first lesser fulfillment, with the second greater one pointing to Jesus. There is no example in the bible of a dual fulfillment occurring with both instances of lesser and greater AFTER THE CROSS with both referring to Jesus or the church somehow.

So, the summary is that we have old testament examples that serve as the first with their new testament counterparts as the second. Both instances are in the bible in that manner and fashion. But there is not a single example of both instances fulfilled after the cross like this manner of dual fulfillment proposes over things like Matt 24. So, like BOWAS said, we cannot stand on a supposition. God does will for us to make foundational doctrines on suppositions.

[Aquila]

What if Satan continuously strives to bring the end?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if Satan continuously strives to bring the end?

Another supposition, though.

[mfblume]

A careful read of Matt 24:21 flatly prohibits a dual fulfillment.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

A careful read of Matt 24:21 flatly prohibits a dual fulfillment.

I see a significant gap. For example,

Matthew 24:15-22
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

From the event that transpires in verse 15 to verse 22 and beyond a significant amount of time may have passed (over 2,000 years). Take a look at Luke's account:

Luke 21:20-25
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Again, from the destruction of Jerusalem to the signs in verse 25 many many years may have passed. We see the Diaspora in verse 24 and how the Jews were spread throughout the world through the centuries. We see Jerusalem trodden under foot of the Gentile peoples... until their time is fulfilled. Then we see the signs begin to take place. Jerusalem's being trodden under foot could have began in AD 70... and have taken place all the way up through 1948.

While we look at the destruction of Jerusalem and the signs that follow heralding the end... I think we don't consider the significant amount of time that takes place between them.

[Bowas]

As Mike Blume pointed out, one point in the case against dual fulfillment is found within the scriptures themselves.
This passage is clear, whichever time this is referring to, will be the worst...ever, as it is impossible to have two or more worst of anything.

This tribulation will be of such magnitude that there was never anything like it prior to it, nor will there be anything worse than it once it has occurred.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by houston

I think it's Exeter, not Jerusalem.

Oh, you are getting sooo close! lol

[houston]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Oh, you are getting sooo close! lol

what?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I've considered dual fulfillment, because there is such a thing when something in the Old Testament fulfilled a prophecy, such as Solomon rising up to reign as son of David, while Jesus Christ is the greater Son of David who now reigns. However, that is dual only in the sense that a foreshadow IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD BEFORE THE CROSS serves as the first lesser fulfillment, with the second greater one pointing to Jesus. There is no example in the bible of a dual fulfillment occurring with both instances of lesser and greater AFTER THE CROSS with both referring to Jesus or the church somehow.

So, the summary is that we have old testament examples that serve as the first with their new testament counterparts as the second. Both instances are in the bible in that manner and fashion. But there is not a single example of both instances fulfilled after the cross like this manner of dual fulfillment proposes over things like Matt 24. So, like BOWAS said, we cannot stand on a supposition. God does will for us to make foundational doctrines on suppositions.

What about "I have set thee for a light unto the gentiles/nations"? Did that not apply both to Christ and the apostle Paul?