Universal Salvation - Page 9

Praxeas · #81 06-02-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Why should a child that has inherited the fortune of the parent be, "under masters until they reach maturity."

Scripture clearly declares that all have been reconciled to God, (I will bring forward the references in pursuit posts). Yet one has to enter into the strait gate to enter into the relationship, to enjoy His life. Yet it already belongs to all.

Well I await those clear scriptures

mfblume · #82 06-02-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Why the assumption? Considering the hopelessness it could create at in fallen humanity. With man it is impossible, but Jesus did pay for something aka the sins of the world.

Assumption? How can we pay back anything for sins? WE have to pay back, the bible said in that parable. Not God. When we forfeit His blood's redemption, WE pay back what WE can pay. The mercy shown depicts the opportunity by the blood of the cross. That is the context of your reference. Your reference did not say UNTIL GOD PAYS BACK, but the sinner. And there is no way we can pay that. That is not assumption. What can replace the blood of Jesus that WE can pay back, for surely we forfeit the blood when we choose to pay what WE can pay?

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. To reject Christ's mercy and forgiveness and to be left with the need of paying back the debt OURSELVES, which is the context of the whole reference, there is no remedy.

crakjak · #83 06-02-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad

Crajak
those were CPs own statements when he was interivewed

have you seen his website ?

I cannot believe you agree with this ! what a shocker

There are as many versions of UR as there are versions in OP.

Evang.Benincasa · #84 06-02-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

There are as many versions of UR as there are versions in OP.

CJ if all are saved then why did Peter tell the Jews to repent?

crakjak · #85 06-03-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Assumption? How can we pay back anything for sins? WE have to pay back, the bible said in that parable. Not God. When we forfeit His blood's redemption, WE pay back what WE can pay. The mercy shown depicts the opportunity by the blood of the cross. That is the context of your reference. Your reference did not say UNTIL GOD PAYS BACK, but the sinner. And there is no way we can pay that. That is not assumption. What can replace the blood of Jesus that WE can pay back, for surely we forfeit the blood when we choose to pay what WE can pay?

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. To reject Christ's mercy and forgiveness and to be left with the need of paying back the debt OURSELVES, which is the context of the whole reference, there is no remedy.

"His master delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all. So My Father also will do to you" (Matt. 18.35).

"You will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny" (Matt. 5:26).

Does "till" and "until" support the concept of and unending hell or annihilation? Don't forget, "So will My Father also will do to you."

I am not suggesting that a person can be save w/o the blood? I presented these verses to show that Jesus, while indicating a "just recompense" for our debts did not preach eternal torment. The "till" and "until" are certainly not indicative of "endless."

Of course, this is a parable, but we should be able to draw some truths from Jesus' parables. And in this one his presents a "measurable punishment", surely you could conceded this clear fact. There no basis at all to assume "endless" from this story.

crakjak · #86 06-03-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

CJ if all are saved then why did Peter tell the Jews to repent?

Peter preached, producing faith in the hearts of the hearers, repentance is the next step in the process of entering into the life that Jesus purchased with His blood.

Evang.Benincasa · #87 06-03-2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Peter preached, producing faith in the hearts of the hearers, repentance is the next step in the process of entering into the life that Jesus purchased with His blood.

CJ then how are ALL 100% of mankind saved if they need to HEAR a preacher to have faith PRODUCED in their hearts?

crakjak · #88 06-03-2007, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

CJ then how are ALL 100% of mankind saved if they need to HEAR a preacher to have faith PRODUCED in their hearts?

I understand where you are coming from, however I do not believe that God relegated the eternal destiny of mankind solely into the hands of men (preachers), though ministers do participate in the work of the kingdom.

Evang.Benincasa · #89 06-03-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

I understand where you are coming from, however I do not believe that God relegated the eternal destiny of mankind solely into the hands of men (preachers), though ministers do participate in the work of the kingdom.

Rom 10:14-17 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

CJ, that is pretty simple but please explain this scripture in realation to your doctrine.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

crakjak · #90 06-03-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well I await those clear scriptures

I present Romans 5:10-21.

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let him who has an ear, hear the word of the Lord. Please, carefully read these verses, and give the Spirit a chance to speak to you.