To tithe or not to tithe?

[Arphaxad]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Tithing was around before Moses was around.

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

So was blood sacrifice

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Animal sacrifice pre-dates the Mosaic law too. Shall we continue sacrificing?

hmmm, plagiarism?

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Where?

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Please post where this is found.
Please explain the context of the scripture(s) you are quoting.
Personally, I regard tithing as Biblical-- but can't adequately explain why.

It’s specifically found in 1 Cor 9:13-14. As I mentioned earlier, houtoos kai of vs. 14 is rendered “even so” in the KJV, and as “so also” and “in the same way” in other translations. This phrase serves as a hinge to link what comes after it to what comes before it. But it’s more than a hinge, because it’s saying that what comes after it is based upon what came before it.

So, what comes after houtoos kai is the Lord’s command (ordination) that they who preach the Gospel should live “of the Gospel”- literally, “out of the Gospel”. What comes before it is:


"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1Cor 9:13)


This, of course, is a direct reference to the Levitical tithing system. Paul is not saying that they who preach the Gospel are to partake of the Levitical system itself, otherwise he would have said "Gospel ministers are allowed to partake of the Levitical tithe". Rather, he said that they are to be supported "in the same way", IOW, "in like manner". This, then, is an appeal to the underlying principle of vs 13- the tithe, or tenth.

We must remember that the concept or underlying principle of the tithe pre-dated the Levitical system, therefore, it is not specifically tied to it. The former system can (and did) pass away, but the underlying principle remains.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Sorry, it's Bueller's day off.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

To many this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that many people do not want to give a tenth of their income, so they will justify themselves any way they can. However, I have never seen someone who gives cheerfully go without. God loves cheerful giving. And He blesses it.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

He established the principle that innocent blood must be shed in order to cover the sin of the guilty and let them go free. It's a type and shadow of Christs innocence and shed blood at Calvary.

Where is the type and shadow for tongues????

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The Lord has always blessed us because giving IS an OT and NT principle.

Hello KeptByTheWord,

I agree with you that giving is found in both testaments.

Whether you give only your 10% or whether you give 15% and beyond, and call it tithing, God will bless, because it is giving.

Whether you choose to just give to those in need around you, and to charitable organizations who are using every $$ to help the poor and those in need, you are giving.

God blesses GIVING, not tithing per se.

Context is king here. While I can't find a set amount established in the NT for giving to the poor, etc., the tithe- by definition- means "a tenth". And while God blesses giving according to the principle found in Lu 6:38 and elsewhere, there IS a specific commandment ("ordained") found in 1 Cor 9:14 regarding the support of the ministry. This ordination is given to the church, applies specifically to "they which preach the gospel", and is directly based upon the underlying principle found in the preceding verse (vs. 13).

And as we know, a commandment is not optional.

II Cor. 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

I think if you'll go back to the passage in 2Cor 9 you'll find that the context is the "ministering to the saints" (vs. 1), as opposed to ministering to "they which preach the gospel" of 1Cor 9:14.

The former context is Paul's collection for the saints in Jerusalem.

If you give of necessity (think the tithing mandate) this is not true giving.

But if you purpose in your heart, giving cheerfully as each man has purposed in his heart... this is cheerful giving.

Giving dutifully 10% is not "purposing in your heart" but it has become a duty, and a necessity. This is not true giving. True giving is when you purpose to give to a need, whatever it may be, and do it cheerful and as the Lord has prospered you. This is giving, and God loveth a cheerful GIVER.

I disagree. As we know from Deut ch. 28-30, the Lord established a Law of Blessing which accompanies each commandment. In Ps. 119, the Psalmist wrote of delighting himself in the commandments of God because of his love for them (vs. 47). Simply because God's commandments are compulsory does not mean they cannot be a joy to fulfill. He attaches his blessing to our obedience as an expression of his love for us. In like manner, we fulfill his commandments because of our love for him (Jn 14:15).

We stopped "tithing" a couple of years ago, and began to practice giving. In fact, we give in such a way that we can't even claim it on our taxes, and receiving it "back" from the government. (All those years, had we really been truly tithing? Giving to the church, and then claiming it on your taxes, and receiving part if not all of it back? I think not.)

Although, all the years we tithed, we did give it as unto the Lord, and the Lord did bless our giving.

We stopped giving in such a way as to claim our giving to the government as charitable donation, and actually receiving some or most of it back on our taxes. How is that giving, when you get it back? Hmm.

I guess I'm not following you here. Since filing a tax return didn't exist in the Bible, I'm not sure how this applies to the argument of a NT tithe or lack of one.

Since we have stopped supporting a pastor whose affluent lifestyle was far above and beyond any of the church people, and started giving to those who have next to nothing, and doing it in such a way that they don't even know we gave... God has blessed us.

Our bills have been paid, we have had plenty of food on our table, and we have had more than enough to give to those in need around us... that including our elderly parents who are in complete poverty after working their whole lives, and dependent on a few dollars from the government that is not even enough to cover their basic expenses in living, let alone all their medical bills. So we help our parents. We help those in need around us. We give to those who are ministering to the homeless and helpless. We give, and we don't receive it back from the government.

And God has continued to bless us.

Ah. And now we get down to the heart of the matter: "Since we have stopped supporting a pastor whose affluent lifestyle was far above and beyond any of the church people".

I think it's important to understand that the actions of those who abuse the NT tithing system do not obviate that system.

1Sam 2:12-17 tells of the story of Eli's sons whose sacrilegious actions caused men to "abhor the offering of the Lord". God brought judgment against Eli's sons, and against Eli, but he did not abolish the Levitical tithing system as a consequence of their actions.

For every pastor who abuses the NT tithing system God established in 1Cor 9, and who treats it as filthy lucre AGAINST the commandment of Scripture (1Pet 5:2), you can be sure God will bring them into judgment. Some are brought to judgment in this life; others at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But make no mistake, they will answer for every penny that was placed into their care (1Cor 4:2).

Why? Because GIVING is the principle established that God blesses, not tithing.

I believe the NT very clearly establishes that God both blesses our giving AND our obedience to his commands, such as the tithe (1Cor 9:14).

[Truthseeker]

[QUOTE=DaveC519;1230965]


It’s specifically found in 1 Cor 9:13-14. As I mentioned earlier, houtoos kai of vs. 14 is rendered “even so” in the KJV, and as “so also” and “in the same way” in other translations. This phrase serves as a hinge to link what comes after it to what comes before it. But it’s more than a hinge, because it’s saying that what comes after it is based upon what came before it.

So, what comes after houtoos kai is the Lord’s command (ordination) that they who preach the Gospel should live “of the Gospel”- literally, “out of the Gospel”. What comes before it is:


"Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" (1Cor 9:13)


This, of course, is a direct reference to the Levitical tithing system. Paul is not saying that they who preach the Gospel are to partake of the Levitical system itself, otherwise he would have said "Gospel ministers are allowed to partake of the Levitical tithe". Rather, he said that they are to be supported "in the same way", IOW, "in like manner". This, then, is an appeal to the underlying principle of vs 13- the tithe, or tenth.

We must remember that the concept or underlying principle of the tithe pre-dated the Levitical system, therefore, it is not specifically tied to it. The former system can (and did) pass away, but the underlying principle remains.

Does that mean minutes shouldn't own property and such so they can "even so" live llike the priest did?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Please post where this is found.
Please explain the context of the scripture(s) you are quoting.

Personally, I regard tithing as Biblical-- but can't adequately explain why.

I know why you can't explain why.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Does that mean minutes shouldn't own property and such so they can "even so" live llike the priest did?

Hello Truthseeker,

I'm assuming you meant "ministry".

No, Paul wasn't arguing for the Levitical system itself, he was arguing for support based on the underlying principle of the Levitical system, which was the tithe.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

It was a prefigure, and either or, animal sacrifice predates the Mosaic law and halted at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, amongst many other practices.

What many other practices?