The Security of the Believer

[PastorTLArt]

and the admonishen against blood is broad and in some instances falls under both also. Im sure i could dig up some Torah commentary on it but it would take me a while.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Luke

The illustrations that you offered would all fall under the heading cerimonial law which we are not under. The old testament law is divided into three different groups:

1. The cerimonial law
2. THe civil law
3. THe moral law

We are not under the civil or the cerimonial law but the moral law still applies.

Pretty sure I've asked this before (of someone, not necessarily you ), but not sure if I got an answer. Can't remember. But:

Does the Bible itself distinguish these three types of law? And does it say somewhere that the ceremonial and civil types of law no longer apply?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Luke

There is just to many plain scripture passages that clearly say that a person can be lost after haveing been saved. I see know way to build a scriptual stance without twisting scripture to make it mean what it never meant.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Hebrews 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE RETURNED.

I Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

II Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

II Peter 2:15 WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

II Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, THOSE THAT WERE CLEAN ESCAPED FROM THEM WHO LIVE IN ERROR.

II PETER 2:20 FOR IF AFTER THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE Lord AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

II PETER 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.



Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Luke,
Not one of the scriptures you present here, condemns anyone to endless damnation, and certain not endless, literal, conscience burning in fire. A person can turn from truth and suffer for it, yet still come to right relationship with God. Certainly a person must repent, have a change of mind and life, or continue to reap destruction. None of that negates the fact of God eventually bringing each one to that change, and that one entering into life. Why in God's name would, He create, and continue to create human beings on and on, knowing that the vast majority are going to be tortured in the most inhuman way without end. And though He could do something about it He doesn't, that is not the Creator, who is called LOVE. It cannot not be, and the scripture supports a different view, all you have to do is to dig with a heart to receive the truth. I was once where you are, but when the Spirit of God heard my intercession for the masses, for years I grieved their coming torment. He assured me that HE has done something. Further, that the thought of such torment had never ever entered His mind to do to His creation. Then He led me on a seven plus year search of scripture and history to confirm the truth, that the traditional doctrine of hell came from men and not from Him. I can't convince you, but someday you will recognize the irrationality of such a belief.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello PastorTLArt,

Great topic! But I do have a question: how do you personally define the doctrine of eternal security? Thanks!

Bump for PastorTLArt.

[supertone]

Originally Posted by PastorTLArt

Although I do agree with you against the doctrine of universal salvation, I disagree with you on taking scripture at face value... Many wars have been started, many people killed, many people placed in bondage and many horrible atrocities committed because someone took it at face value. That is why the Word even admonishes us to STUDY, We have to study the Word in its historical context and then interpret it in context with the time we live in. We have to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word!

WOW! Talk about extrapolating a point to the Nth degree. Look for context, like you have stated to others, you've missed the point.

[PastorTLArt]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Bump for PastorTLArt.

Dave, I will answer it. I am checking in before I go out, but when I get home I will post my thoughts on the subject.