Why I Left the UPC

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I think the church was correct in their decision in the 60's and see no reason to change it now. It is the symptom not the problem.

Isn't this kind of like teaching for doctrine the commandments of men? Sure seems like it to me. Good grief, in the '60's there were lots of things we were not allowed to do: we could ONLY listen to Christian radio - and even then it was best if it was Southern Gospel music or preaching, NO TV, no movies, women's hair had to be long, uncut and up! Those were the days when we believed that if you played a record backwards you could hear subliminal messages from the devil. And that peace signs were a broken cross so therefore evil. Really? You want to stay mired in those things? I'm not living in the '60's anymore. Sorry about you.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Gotta shave if you are a member here. Simple Saved and shaved.

So are you thinking that if you don't shave you can't go to Heaven either? Cuz if that's the case, I guess Jesus should have saved Himself the trouble of going to the cross and suffering for our sins. He could have based on the men's salvation on facial hair and just been done with it.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

If there are no solid scriptural principles behind a "conviction" then it is simply personal preference.

A primary purpose of the indwelling Holy spirit is to illuminate the written Word of God - not to fabricate new doctrines or institute unneeded burden on others.

Well said, my friend! Well said!!

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I don't know. If pastors from my past wrote an email to me apologizing, I would accept it. If my own folks ever apologized to me for forcing me to live "in the compound" that was our church at the time, I would accept it. Neither of them have.

Now that is not to say that I would rejoin, but I would think very highly of them for doing so.

I believe there are quite a few former UC's who perhaps now believe different than they did then who have yet to acknowledge all the harm they did for years. In fact, they often joke about it amongst their peers.

RW

how did it actually harm you?
were you sheltered and clothed and loved?
were your Pastor and Parents trying to spare you from the heartache and suffering that life can bring from making wrong choices?
I don't agree with some of the things that I was taught when I was in an UC church, but I remember good times also

and honestly, I feel more "harmed" now that I am trying to find a place to make a stand somewhere between UC and hell.

[scotty]

Randy, I can understand your point. Being under the custodial of your parents is one thing. But once you could step out from that, you did.

Here is the thing. It's called "blind obedience". That is one thing that none of us will accept. If any one of you could state something that you believe God has said for you to do, you could back it with scripture. None of us believe that there is something we are to do that the reasons for it are not laid out in scripture. After all that is how these threads get started. God gives us commandments for a reason, we do not follow Him "blindly". Yet we want retribution because we may have followed man blindly.

I guess I just don't understand how we sit on this forum and throw the insults at one anothers beliefs for the very thing we insist on UPC to apologize for. Understanding scripture. Someone who may stand for the UPC gets dumped on for not searching out the scriptures for themselves yet the UPC is the bad guy for leading them in the wrong direction. Are not both equally responsible ? Why is it the orgs fault people are lead astray when its our own responsibility to seek out the truth ? Each one of you have done so, have you not ? Is it the orgs fault for leading you that way or yours because you were blindly obedient instead of seeking the truth for yourselves to begin with?

I was lead astray. But I have only myself to blame, not the org. It is my responsibility to seek out the truth. If I follow an org with "blind obedience" then I am the only one to blame.

[berkeley]

wish this guy would shut up and go golfing with Mangun.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by scotty

Randy, I can understand your point. Being under the custodial of your parents is one thing. But once you could step out from that, you did.

Here is the thing. It's called "blind obedience". That is one thing that none of us will accept. If any one of you could state something that you believe God has said for you to do, you could back it with scripture. None of us believe that there is something we are to do that the reasons for it are not laid out in scripture. After all that is how these threads get started. God gives us commandments for a reason, we do not follow Him "blindly". Yet we want retribution because we may have followed man blindly.

I guess I just don't understand how we sit on this forum and throw the insults at one anothers beliefs for the very thing we insist on UPC to apologize for. Understanding scripture. Someone who may stand for the UPC gets dumped on for not searching out the scriptures for themselves yet the UPC is the bad guy for leading them in the wrong direction. Are not both equally responsible ? Why is it the orgs fault people are lead astray when its our own responsibility to seek out the truth ? Each one of you have done so, have you not ? Is it the orgs fault for leading you that way or yours because you were blindly obedient instead of seeking the truth for yourselves to begin with?

I was lead astray. But I have only myself to blame, not the org. It is my responsibility to seek out the truth. If I follow an org with "blind obedience" then I am the only one to blame.

Ok, most of what you said would apply to an adult but I was in the church from age 12 to 18. To this day I still get cold sweats when standing during a song service. It would have been a hard time for me anyways during those years regardless but being forced to join "the compound" just multiplied the agony. I needed time by myself -lots and lots of time, and yet it was the ONE thing I was never granted because we had church, lots and lots of church. Whenever the church doors were open we were there. Whatever the pastor told my folks to do -they did, and made ME do it as well. I was raised by him far more then by them. It was a cult of like minded people who identified with each other through common dress, speech patterns, "blind obedience" to the pastor, and church, lots of lots of church. Constant church. Endless church. But I guess the last laugh is on them in that my basic belief in God is MUCH stronger now than it ever was then -and many of those who were part of "the compound" have left anything resembling basic Christianity. I guess emotions, dress, the pastor, and the church, lots of lots of church, were the true foundation for most of their beliefs.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Amanah

RW

how did it actually harm you?
were you sheltered and clothed and loved?
were your Pastor and Parents trying to spare you from the heartache and suffering that life can bring from making wrong choices?
I don't agree with some of the things that I was taught when I was in an UC church, but I remember good times also

and honestly, I feel more "harmed" now that I am trying to find a place to make a stand somewhere between UC and hell.

See my post above.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

See my post above.

can you sit down with you parents, talk about it and find a way to forgive whatever hurt you feel?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Amanah

can you sit down with you parents, talk about it and find a way to forgive whatever hurt you feel?

They have long since left themselves (and remained Christians!) but I doubt it was nearly as traumatic for them since they always had an ultimate say in what they did or did to me. I didn't.

Now whenever I am around any more conservative apostolics (it doesn't happen often but does time to time) it is a bit like the Vietnam vet who hears a typewriter and starts sweating because of its resemblance to machine gun fire.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yessir! It caused me to see what was man-made traditions, that would not allow Jesus Himself in a church today, and what is actually God's leading. Standards are the result of walking after the flesh in a rule-keeping mode where the Spirit cannot lead a person. And Paul said that is the same thing as reading off the law and finding oneself more prone to law breaking than to keeping it.

Standards never kept anyone saved. We can discuss certain saints or preachers who were caught committing adultery with another man's wife...all while doing and preaching standards

Standards sadly because a false means of being holy or staying saved. People begin to rely on standards instead of on God

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yep the answer remains the same without any regrets. We save them and shave them.

an example of man made doctrine