Baptism: Essential or Not - Page 9

Stephanas · #81 01-21-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corneilius received the Holy Spirit before being baptized thats true. Yet as soon as he was finished speaking in tongues he and all his household were COMMANDED by the Apostle Peter be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

I WONDER WHY?

Peter commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized because neither he nor the Jewish brothers with him could deny that God had purified their heart by faith.

Acts 15:9 "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

If the hearts been purified by faith, the new believer should be baptized. After you've believed with the heart, it's time to make confession with the mouth, and the water of baptism is a perfect place to confess Christ.

Truthseeker · #82 01-21-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanas

Peter commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized because neither he nor the Jewish brothers with him could deny that God had purified their heart by faith.

Acts 15:9 "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

If the hearts been purified by faith, the new believer should be baptized. After you've believed with the heart, it's time to make confession with the mouth, and the water of baptism is a perfect place to confess Christ.

And what happened to Cornelius that Peter or any of the elders could deny them baptism??

Truthseeker · #83 01-21-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanas

Abraham was justified by faith before the Law of Moses.

David was justified by faith under the Law of Moses.

The thief was justified by faith during the transition between Law and Grace.

I have been justified by faith after the fulfilment of the Law in Christ.

Baptism is essential for every New Testament believer who has been justified by faith, just as circumcision was essential for Moses after he was justified by faith.

Any person who professes faith and refuses baptism ought to join the word of faith movement and enjoy all the health and wealth that they can on this side of the eternal divide. If you refuse baptism, you deny your profession of faith. Baptism is absolutely essential for New Testament believers.

Essential as in not going to heaven without it???

deacon blues · #84 01-21-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Good point, forgot about that breaking legs stuff.

Don't know. Jesus said one must be born again. John said Spirit would not given til after he was glorified. Why couldn't spirit be given before he was glorified???

Yet we have examples of those before the cross who were "filled with the Holy Ghost" or "full of the Holy Ghost" before the cross. I agree John's statement makes it clear the Spirit was not yet given. I've wondered this myself and don't a have definitive understanding. The Spirit was not yet given yet it was. Moses, the 70 elders, John the Baptist, and others were said to have been full of the HG or the Spirit of God. Perhaps two separate issues. The baptism of the Holy Ghost as recorded in Acts is a different work than the impartation of God's Spirit? Just asking...

Jesus did say that all we had to do was ask our heavenly Father for the Spirit and it would be given to us. John says that whoever acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and He in us.

Truthseeker · #85 01-21-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Yet we have examples of those before the cross who were "filled with the Holy Ghost" or "full of the Holy Ghost" before the cross. I agree John's statement makes it clear the Spirit was not yet given. I've wondered this myself and don't a have definitive understanding. The Spirit was not yet given yet it was. Moses, the 70 elders, John the Baptist, and others were said to have been full of the HG or the Spirit of God. Perhaps two separate issues. The baptism of the Holy Ghost as recorded in Acts is a different work than the impartation of God's Spirit? Just asking...

Jesus did say that all we had to do was ask our heavenly Father for the Spirit and it would be given to us. John says that whoever acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and He in us.

We all don't got all the answers but Peter words regarding the gentiles is enough, IMO.

A.W. Bowman · #86 01-21-2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

What meanest thou?

See Post # 31. The elevation of the Holy Ghost above its intended position.

I apologize to the long delay in responding – I thought I was finished with this thread.

The Spirit is given for a purpose, to serve the children of God that they might fulfill God's design and purpose in our lives and to labor within the kingdom of God. For the most part, we look to the Spirit as a source of fulfilling our personal desires and needs, but that is a secondary task of the Holy Spirit. The primary task is to provide us with spiritual insight into the word of God and to provide God’s witness to our testimony concerning the gospel. (Mark 16:17-18 & Hebrews 2)

In too many worship services, we are looking for the ‘feel’ of the Holy Ghost (goose bumps), the blessings of the Holy Ghost (deliverance from problems), the power of the Holy Ghost (healing), the signs of the Holy Ghost, (speaking in tongues & interpretation), etc. etc. In these kinds of services when the name of Jesus is invoked, it is generally as an addendum to a prayer. Even when the Spirit is manifested, it is the Spirit that is often times worshiped, not the one He is there to represent and was sent to remind us of whom we are to focus our attention worship upon. See John 15:26 & 16:12-16.

We are to imitate Jesus, i.e., to take on (and to keep) the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5 & 1 Peter 4:1). We are to become living epistles (1 Corinthians 1:10 & 2 Corinthians 3:3) of the word of God, and to conform ourselves to the likeness of Jesus (Ephesians 5:1, followers, i.e. imitators of). In many services we seek the ‘gift of the Holy Ghost’ (the experience of) and fail to transform that experience into kingdom service.

Even in our prayers, we generally call upon the name of the Father, the Lord, God, Jesus, or the Holy Ghost, to heal, deliver and to bless us and others. We tack on the phrase “In the name of Jesus.” not understanding what that prayer signature actually means or the authority it carries when used according to scripture. We need to move from asking Jesus to do what He has instructed us to do – in His name (authority) - and to perform those tasks according to the power provided to us via the Holy Spirit of God, so that we might exercise the authority that has been given to us (John 14:8-21).

Without the Spirit of God we have no power (Acts 1:8). But, let us not worship the power or even its method of delivery, but its originator - Jesus.

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Note to readers: It is imperative that the content of the scriptural references provided be read and understood within their larger context.

LUKE2447 · #87 01-21-2011, 09:47 AM

To cleanse a heart by faith is not about remission of sins directly in relationship to being born again and coming into covenant. It is talking about change of mind or acceptance of the message. If I am a liberal or conservative and I switch sides. One could say my mind/heart has been changed/cleansed by the knowledge I have accepted as true. In the case of baptism in Acts 10. To change ones mind is to respond as would should. Be baptized to be united with Christ. Faith involves many aspects and relation to what is known and revealed in short and to a longer period of ones life. To have faith means your heart is not at enmity with God. Does not mean your past sins have been forgiven or you have come into covenant and united with Christ. Baptism only can be meaningful IF your heart is turned to him and not at enmity.

Michael The Disciple · #88 01-21-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The Apostles COMMANDED the Antioch church to abstain from meat offered to idols, from blood, and from the meat of strangled animals in Acts 15. That didn't make those things essential to salvation.

Why was it so important to Peter for them to be baptized in the name of the Lord that he commanded this IMMEDIATELY when they were finished speaking in tongues?

Could it be because he knew Jesus said we must be born of WATER and the Spirit to enter the Kingdom?

CC1 · #89 01-21-2011, 07:57 PM

I think it is fair to say that with this doctrinal stance published the good Deacon has burnt his bridges (although I know of a certain Canadian couple who left the Mothership for a group with a broader theological view then several years later went home to the Mothership with apparent success)

mizpeh · #90 01-21-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I think it is fair to say that with this doctrinal stance published the good Deacon has burnt his bridges (although I know of a certain Canadian couple who left the Mothership for a group with a broader theological view then several years later went home to the Mothership with apparent success)

Any new pics of your granddaughter?