LS: " I don't buy all this rape business "

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I have a question. Maybe slightly off subject, but here goes. I noticed on another thread that William Branham was taken to task for some of his teaching, even to the judgement of some that "he's going to hell!" (Now, let me say, I'm neither for or against Bro. Branham...met him in 1964 and I went on with my life and he went on with his!) But if you're gonna take Bro, Branham to task for his preaching, why isn't LS taken to task by some of you for his ridiculous doctrines as well! And I'm aware that some of you do take him to task, or at least one of you! daII lol Just sayin'

Been Thinkin

An excellent question... or a really excellent point.



It's not as if there's NO PRECEDENT in the U.P. of C. for taking a preacher to task over his teachings.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I have a question. Maybe slightly off subject, but here goes. I noticed on another thread that William Branham was taken to task for some of his teaching, even to the judgement of some that "he's going to hell!" (Now, let me say, I'm neither for or against Bro. Branham...met him in 1964 and I went on with my life and he went on with his!) But if you're gonna take Bro, Branham to task for his preaching, why isn't LS taken to task by some of you for his ridiculous doctrines as well! And I'm aware that some of you do take him to task, or at least one of you! daII lol Just sayin'

Been Thinkin

Because as ridiculous as his HMH and other wacked out sermons are, he does help prop up a crippled doctrine of the UPC and that is uncut hair.

Nobody at headqaurters has the chutzpah to call this guy on the carpet. They have instead made LS the poster boy of the UPC.

Sda , so very very sad.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

True Dan, but I don't even care anymore. Last one out of WEC turn off the lights please.

They have brought their own demise upon themselves by their hardness of heart.

I like you a lot FAL, and understand your departure from many of the traditional hardline UPC doctrines.

What I have difficulty understanding though, is this need to burn the bridges on the way.

Why the ill will? Is it because you have no love for those you move away from? Are "they" simply a faceless group who deserve the wrath of God for the ills of the past?

I can't figure it out. And of course you aren't the only one - there are others here that share your burn-their-villages mindset.

I only ask that you personally understand when I don't share your enthusiasm. Some of us have not lost all hope, nor all respect for the heritage, family, and friends that remain. And even like yourself, have found freedom in Christ without shedding all semblance of Pentecostalism.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I like you a lot FAL, and understand your departure from many of the traditional hardline UPC doctrines.

What I have difficulty understanding though, is this need to burn the bridges on the way.

Why the I'll will? Is it because you have no love for those you move away from? Are "they" simply a faceless group who deserve the wrath of God for the ills of the past?
I can't figure it out. And of course you aren't the only one - there are others here that share your burn-their-villages mindset.

I only ask that you personally understand when I don't share your enthusiasm. Some of us have not lost all hope, nor all respect for the heritage, family, and friends that remain. And even like yourself, have found freedom in Christ without shedding all semblance of Pentecostalism.

Hoovie, I don't how to reply. I guess I have watched for to long the infighting among leadership on "issues"

I have tons of relatives in very coservative UPCs i love them and hope they and their church makes it.

I am not "bitter" I just choose not to be in this "mess" of misinterpreted scriptures that translate into imposing needless rules and regulations upon women.

I don't want to get into reasons I would to be bitter if I wanted to be bitter.

I have had 4 O/P Pentecostal pastors. Two were fine men, loving , caring men that loved God and loved his people.

The other two were pastors that of the type that you read about over at spiritual abuse .com

I had lunch last week with a missiionary home on furlough. He mentioned that those kinds of pastors are maybe 1 in ten 10% Sadly for me it was 50%

Just one story from my UPC perspective. I was a young newly married man with GI bill to pay for college. I asked my pastor (we HAD to ask) about taking a leave of absence from my job and going to college full time to earn a degree in Education to be a teacher.

His reply was that he could not afford to be without my tithes.

I look back at the years I spent bowed under the oppression of a man like this and I cry.

This is just one story, You don't want to hear the rest and I don't want to dredge them up.

I just simply choose not to care if men like those two pastors fail or flurush.

It's not my battle anymore.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

I have a question. Maybe slightly off subject, but here goes. I noticed on another thread that William Branham was taken to task for some of his teaching, even to the judgement of some that "he's going to hell!" (Now, let me say, I'm neither for or against Bro. Branham...met him in 1964 and I went on with my life and he went on with his!) But if you're gonna take Bro, Branham to task for his preaching, why isn't LS taken to task by some of you for his ridiculous doctrines as well! And I'm aware that some of you do take him to task, or at least one of you! daII lol Just sayin'

Been Thinkin

Are you serious? You think just Dan is critical of LS's teachings?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Because as ridiculous as his HMH and other wacked out sermons are, he does help prop up a crippled doctrine of the UPC and that is uncut hair.

Nobody at headqaurters has the chutzpah to call this guy on the carpet. They have instead made LS the poster boy of the UPC.

Sda , so very very sad.

Uh, he was talking about here on this board

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Are you serious? You think just Dan is critical of LS's teachings?

Nah.... couldn't think of the others. None of them had impressed me as much as Dan!

BT

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Hoovie, I don't how to reply. I guess I have watched for to long the infighting among leadership on "issues"

I have tons of relatives in very coservative UPCs i love them and hope they and their church makes it.

I am not "bitter" I just choose not to be in this "mess" of misinterpreted scriptures that translate into imposing needless rules and regulations upon women.

I don't want to get into reasons I would to be bitter if I wanted to be bitter.

I have had 4 O/P Pentecostal pastors. Two were fine men, loving , caring men that loved God and loved his people.

The other two were pastors that of the type that you read about over at spiritual abuse .com

I had lunch last week with a missiionary home on furlough. He mentioned that those kinds of pastors are maybe 1 in ten 10% Sadly for me it was 50%

Just one story from my UPC perspective. I was a young newly married man with GI bill to pay for college. I asked my pastor (we HAD to ask) about taking a leave of absence from my job and going to college full time to earn a degree in Education to be a teacher.

His reply was that he could not afford to be without my tithes.

I look back at the years I spent bowed under the oppression of a man like this and I cry.

This is just one story, You don't want to hear the rest and I don't want to dredge them up.

I just simply choose not to care if men like those two pastors fail or flurush.

It's not my battle anymore.

I think the missionary is right, especially now that many left the UPC to be independent or join the WPF

For a while the AOG had a similar problem as well.

[ccolorado]

not to mention children who are raped...what was he thinking. No amount of education can stop some children by being duped by predators...
BTW...has Lee Stoneking ever been married?

[The Lemon]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Hoovie, I don't how to reply. I guess I have watched for to long the infighting among leadership on "issues"

I have tons of relatives in very coservative UPCs i love them and hope they and their church makes it.

I am not "bitter" I just choose not to be in this "mess" of misinterpreted scriptures that translate into imposing needless rules and regulations upon women.

I don't want to get into reasons I would to be bitter if I wanted to be bitter.

I have had 4 O/P Pentecostal pastors. Two were fine men, loving , caring men that loved God and loved his people.

The other two were pastors that of the type that you read about over at spiritual abuse .com

I had lunch last week with a missiionary home on furlough. He mentioned that those kinds of pastors are maybe 1 in ten 10% Sadly for me it was 50%

Just one story from my UPC perspective. I was a young newly married man with GI bill to pay for college. I asked my pastor (we HAD to ask) about taking a leave of absence from my job and going to college full time to earn a degree in Education to be a teacher.

His reply was that he could not afford to be without my tithes.

I look back at the years I spent bowed under the oppression of a man like this and I cry.

This is just one story, You don't want to hear the rest and I don't want to dredge them up.

I just simply choose not to care if men like those two pastors fail or flurush.

It's not my battle anymore.

Hoovie & FAL,

I understand where FAL is coming from. Now I don't subscribe to any hate toward any organization or minister, and I'm not saying FAL does or anyone on this forum does, I'm just talking about me.

I do know what it is like to sit under oppressive leadership. Having said that, I think it fair also to mention that for some folks the only type of leadership they are exposed to is this type, so even if the statistic is 10%, for them it is 100% and the only vantage point from which they draw perspective from.

It can play serious head games with an individual to find out that the nagging pit in their stomach concerning some doctrines and practices was actually right. Having said all that, while I try to not be angry, bitter, or judgemental, one thing usually becomes crystal clear over time, and that is the resolve to never again allow another man to control the spiritual aspects of a persons home.

Also, when there is even the slightest whiff of legalism around, these types of folks are hyper sensitive to it because of the exposure they have had. Most times these folks either find somewhere else to go to church, or they don't attend at all - it is a very precarious place to be. Rather then slam everybody, they simply walk away choosing not to engage in that battle again, and in many ways, who can blame them?

These folks need healing, but it can't come from a pastor who has not been where they are or felt what they felt. There is a special balm needed for those kinds of wounds, and alot of folks do not know how to handle these saints.